Question:

We’ve got an enquiry for a high-end deli bar that wants to use mist-cooling on its FOH display counters, mainly for fresh fish, dispensed on short totems. Does any member know a UK source for this kind of technology?

Replies:

1. There used to be a company called Smeva who manufactured serve-over cabinets that added moisture.  Dutch company but I’m not sure if anyone still imports them into the UK.
2. I know the World Food market in Kensington use it!
3. Stephan Baldock at ISA Italy. Email: baldock.stephen@isaitaly.com Mobile: 07971 654348
4. XL Refrigeration in Leeds
5. John Ward has said that they can provide the misting technology and can you contact him via John.Ward@scobiemcintosh.com to discuss further.

Question:

As part of our new kitchen/restaurant facility, we are looking into the payment of food. Ideally, we would like staff to have an ID card, which also doubles up as their access control card to get them into areas of the building but also as a payment card for food.

Like the system schools use, called Parent Pay…… where as they can pre load and then swipe as they pay. Are you familiar of any such systems/suppliers? Thank you.

Replies:

1. ceda Member ‘Kitchequip’ are currently involved in launching  the ‘new concept’ of ‘cashless kiosk’  which is very much aimed at this type of operation you highlighted from enquirer. They have set up a showroom layout of this very operation, offering hot/cold grab n go foods, drinks/snacks/ & coffee machine facility, with the pay station at the end / cashless system/ operated by till type system that we’re all familiar with/can be set for retail pricing and additional staff concessionary rates etc. They are happy to speak with the interested parties and show them the concept.  (it’s very much like the ‘coming across to us from America, the ‘amazon go’ type grab n go store for busy people on the move at break times – https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=16008589011
2. A ceda Member’s customer has this in place and is very pleased with the service she has from Systopia:
   https://systopia.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAjw8e7mBRBsEiwAPVxxiP-QJQpLHm6Z-3AJrSGlSCLQv8H6dQLCaL5npW4n65hZkLGfr6VQlRoCRtQQAvD_BwE

Question:

One of our customers has approached us to supply and install bespoke Commercial Barbeque appliance that incorporates refrigeration and induction units within it.

Could you ask if anyone knows who may deal or supply this type of appliance. Thank you.

Replies:

1. Adande Refrigeration Ltd – https://ceda.co.uk/our-partners/adande-refrigeration re the refrigeration part.
2. Inox Fabrications Ltd – https://ceda.co.uk/our-partners/Inox-Fabrications
3. MCS Technical Products Ltd – https://ceda.co.uk/our-partners/mcs-technical-products/ re supplying the unit.
4. Scobie McIntosh – https://ceda.co.uk/members/scobie-equipment-ltd/
5. Holmes Catering could supply this. Please contact Matt Taylor mtaylor@hce.co.uk 
6. Try Rex Martins
7. Modo-Commercial Kitchen Design. Concept Bars,Concept Refrigeration, Concept Bar Systems https://ceda.co.uk/members/modo-commercial-kitchen-design/ 
8. Kitchequip have installed a similar set up: Please contact https://ceda.co.uk/members/kitchequip-co-uk/ 
9. I would try Clay Oven Company or Control Induction perhaps, Levon at Clay Oven would be able to help I am sure.
10. Archway Engineering who supply both direct and through distributors do bespoke BBQs.
    There is also a company called Oxgrills who I think are local to us (01789 263 799). I have not dealt with them personally so unable to vouch for them.
11. Hope this helps – There won’t be a single manufacturer that makes the whole unit so it would be a case of selecting:
    A. A suitable induction hob – various manufacturers
    B. A suitable refrigerated base unit – variously known as a ‘Chef Base’/‘Under Broiler Counter’/’Low Level Counter’ etc etc – these are available from all of the Major manufacturers.
    C. A suitable custom-built stainless steel, firebrick-lined charcoal-pit BBQ from a reputable fabrication shop to surround/support A and B above and bring the whole unit together.
    1. The above assumes that the custom-built BBQ fabrication is a charcoal fire-pit and not gas-fire.
    2. Due to excessively high burning temperature of the charcoal the fabricator will have to ensure adequate insulation to prevent damage to the hob or refrigerated base. Ideally the hob should be separated from the charcoal pit by a solid insulated screen or adequate separation.

Question:

We are pricing a central London based kitchen/pantry refurbishment job which will be taking place over the summer on a 5-6 week contract period.

We will need to take on the role of Principal Contractor and therefore have full responsibility of the site with a full time working site manager for the duration, to oversee the overall job including our own sub-contractors and client specified specialist subbies for fire alarms, ventilation systems etc.

Can any member recommend either a freelancer capable of undertaking this role or an agency who has suitably reliable/qualified staff whom we can go through to find a candidate.

Replies:

1. I would caution anyone taking on the roles of PC and or PD unless they have the right policies and systems in place especially around PQQ and demonstrating competency. I would advise the member to talk to Tim Knowles in the first instance who will be able to assist in both advising them and in also doing the role/roles. Tim can be contacted via Email: tim.knowles@fourgroup.co.uk
   Tel: 01780 755 751 Website: www.fourgroup.co.uk
2. We work for a company based in Manchester who use a chap based in the South for their London works. His name is David Ford he has been around the industry for a long time. Tel: 07917 696720
3. I can recommend Mark Laxton who has undertaken similar work for our company. He is available via Email: marklaxton01@gmail.com
4. Doug’s Perea’s details (for the project manager) are: Email: dougperea@dapces.com I have not used Doug but have him on record to contact if I need him.

Question

We need an advisor to check and update our H&S policy which is fully written and appropriate to our company. We previously paid approx. £250 every 6 months to update this and all was done via email. Please can the ceda membership recommend a suitable advisor. Thank you

Replies:

1. We use the following person who has worked with us for many years and is able to do this remotely as required:
John Sproul H&S Services Ltd, Unit 21 Brunel Building, James Watt Avenue, Scottish Enterprise Technology Park, East Kilbride, G75 0QD. Tel: 01355 268348. Mobile: 07967 626177. E-mail: john@sproulservices.co.uk Website: www.sproulservices.co.uk

2.  We use HS Direct https://www.hsdirect.co.uk/ They sort all this out and we have an online RAMS service which is great, and they can if you require complete your CHAS / Safe contractor application it costs us £6oo inc vat per year.

3.  Tim Knowles Grad IOSH, IMaPS – Head of Four Health & Safety Consultancy.
Email: tim.knowles@fourgroup.co.uk Tel: 01780 755 751.Website: www.fourgroup.co.uk

4. We use Peninsula they only do it once a year and come to site to conduct on audit. I would recommend them.

5. Melissa Jane Consultancy Tel: 07497870696 expert in catering equipment company safety.

6. We work with an organisation called Peninsula Business Services and have done for a number of years. I would certainly recommend them. Our sales contact there is Deb Mansell. mansell@peninsula-uk.com Tel: 07971 146674.
Not sure if Debs covers the members area personally but I am sure that she will put them in contact with the appropriate person.

Question

Can a ceda Member recommend a resin flooring contractor?

Replies:

1. Tech Flooring 01582 670303
2. Contact Adam Clements adamclements@acrylicon.com
3. We would recommend Milestone – I think they are based in Leeds. Sorry not in Office until Tuesday so the only contact on my phone is Nick 07718 404410
4. Try Acrylicon UK of Wyboston. Contact Barry Holden 01480 276620
5. ceda Member ‘Scobie McIntosh’ are happy to help. Please contact ‘Kingsley Donaldson’ Email: Kingsley.Donaldson@scobiemcintosh.com Tel: 0845 5040 466
6. Acrylicon are the best, our local contact is John Wilson 07535 254907.
7. National flooring in Market Deeping Lincolnshire
8. I had an email from adamclements@acrylicon.com who may be able to help. Tel: 01480 276620 www.acryliconUK.com
9. ceda Member ‘FSW Gas Services’. Contact: Frank Winterbottom – Frankwinterbottom@fswgasservices.co.uk Tel: 0161 943 0268

Question

Does any ceda Member know who makes a double door pass through refrigerator circa 1400 x 800mm please?

Replies:

1. CEP do a real big one but not double door.
2. Infrico – Two Door Refrigerated Prep Counters. MPN: BMGN1470PDC Width: 1468mm Height: 850mm Depth: 700mm
3. I believe they are few and far between and the low height could be a particular problem. We supplied one of these earlier this year, which is not too far off and they say that they may be able to make custom sizes – http://www.wealdrefrigeration.co.uk/products/pass-thru/ It was not cheap either, at £2925 + VAT and that was six months ago.
4. Moffat Scotland
5. Gram used to make 800 deep double door counter fridges.
6. Precision Refrigeration – they will supply bespoke items
7. Scobie McIntosh. Tel: 0845 5040 466. Email: scobiemcintosh.com
8. Try Gamko or Osborne refrigerators.

Question

I need to know where to purchase (hopefully in UK), chest freezers which will run at -60 for freezing sushi tuna. Your help would be appreciated.

Replies:

1. Its many years since I worked in refrigeration, but a company called Swan Environmental (think they were based in Edinburgh) used to do ultra-low temperature chest freezers.
2. Contact ceda Silver Partner ‘Foster Refrigerator’ https://ceda.co.uk/our-partners/silver-partners/Foster-Refrigerator
3. We can source low temperature chest freezers, which will freeze down to -60 C as follows: The supplier of the low temp chest freezers is Pentland Wholesale, Paul Royds 07891 490591 / 0845 6014456
4. ‘Pentland’ do 4 sizes of ‘Vestfrost’ low temp chest freezers with temp range of -30degC to -60degC. Models VT147, VT307, VT407 and VT547. Although I‘m not certain about this, I would think that the freezer should only be used to conserve the frozen product at that temperature – the freezing of fresh product presumably needs to be in an appropriate blast freezer? Fish is a high-risk product after all. There aren’t any blast-freezers I can see which take the product that low, so maybe not.
5. Scobie McIntosh. Tel: 0845 5040 466. Email: scobiemcintosh.com
6. I think Hoshzaki do one under their medical range.
7. The only place you can get those are medical distributors – I think LEC medical do them

Question

We are having some major issues with Welsh water over the use of tundish’s and  “A” class  air gaps on 20 Grid Combination ovens.
Because the drain is so low we are unable to get a tundish fitted and maintain a 50 air break above the tundish.
We have spoken in depth with Wade Drains and under floor traps but welsh water are being a nightmare.
Has any other member had issues and how have they overcome it.
We have ensured all items used are WRAS approved and they have been quite helpful   but DWR CYMRU  +Welsh water are not  helping with advice or recommendations at all..
Any help would be much appreciated.

Replies:

1. Yes, we have had similar issues in different parts of the country. The only option (if rational)  is to fit feet extension and change the trollies to match, can’t recall if rational offer any extensions to the trollies. If another brand, you will need to do something similar or speak to the manufacturer on how to combat WRAS approval, it should be contained within the specific WRAS approval special notes.
2. We recently fitted “extensions” to the oven & Trolleys which increased the drain outlet by 70mm. These accessories are Rational products. Hope this helps.
3. We have had this and we had to fit a lift pump, so the unit drained into the pump then the water was pumped up and into a tundish, you do need to fit a vent upstand pipe In the pipe run between the combi and the pump to stop air locks etc
4. Has the member considered a waste water pump to resolve this issue? By installing a pump directly to the oven, the water can then be pumped upward to a tundish arrangement which in turn can then drain to the floor drain. We use either Saniflow Sanicom 1 or Grundfos Sololift2, commercial pumps.
5. Our advice would be to have site use a floor drain and sit the drain over the drain grate this does not require a tundish, we only use a tundish on 6 and 10 grids all 20 and 40 grids would be on a floor drain.  If it is too late to fit a floor drain, then fit a shallow tundish any fabricator can make or I have seen square type tundish’s used and cut down to suit.  So long as you have the correct gap this should suffice.  Some of our engineers also cut the pipe on and angle so that the back flow cannot happen.
6. Have they considered a Saniflow type system to lift the drain water to a higher level, and then drop into a tundish at about 1 metre high. I’m sure Rational do something on these lines.
7. We have installed a number of 20 grid combis they all were plumbed into floor gully’s but terminated above the gully, so we assumed this was the same as a Tundish.
8. From experience with 20/ 40 Grid or even double stacked combi ovens with any water authority there is always a potential drain issue. The options for a compliant installation are only:
   – Install drain over a 400mm (600mm) sq/ dia trapped floor gulley- no tundish but leave pipe 50mm above the gulley cover. ( using larger dia/ sq gulley allows for catching any splashing).
   – Install a combi drain pump- with triangular paddle from 1^st choice directly to oven then it will pump up and you can then if you only have a 2” drain pop up fit a tundish and a trap to the pipe and suspend the drain pipe from the pump 50mm above the tundish.
   Respectfully trying to fit any drain cover over a gulley that has a funnel or tundish style cover will not fit under the drain pipe and give a gap as required.
9. We (Space) recently fitted “extensions” to the oven & Trolleys which increased the drain outlet by 70mm. These accessories are Rational products.
10. We have had this and we had to fit a lift pump so the unit drained into the pump then the water was pumped up and into a tundish, you do need to fit a vent upstand pipe In the pipe run between the combi and the pump to stop air locks etc. Has the member considered a waste water pump to resolve this issue? By installing a pump directly to the oven the water can then be pumped upward to a tundish arrangement which in turn can then drain to the floor drain. We use either Saniflow Sanicom 1 or Grundfos Sololift2, commercial pumps.
11. Our advice would be to have site use a floor drain and sit the drain over the drain grate this does not require a tundish, we only use a tundish on 6 and 10 grids all 20 and 40 grids would be on a floor drain.  If it is too late to fit a floor drain then fit a shallow tundish any fabricator can make or  I have seen square type tundish’s used and cut down to suit.  So long as you have the correct gap this should suffice.  Some of our engineers also cut the pipe on and angle so that the back flow cannot happen.
12. Have they considered a Saniflow type system to lift the drain water to a higher level, and then drop into a tundish at about 1 metre high. I’m sure Rational do something on these lines.
13. I had a very similar experience with Yorkshire water on a 20 grid combi oven. In the end I had to fit a Munson ring and back plate to the floor just next to the trapped floor gulley and lower it to its minimum so that there was still a fall on the waste from the back of the oven and the waste outlet being hovered above the floor gulley created an “air gap” we actually trimmed some of elbow off the rational elbow to increase the gap slightly. On our site this satisfied the water authority.
14. We have installed a number of 20 grid combis they all were plumbed into floor gully’s but terminated above the gully so we assumed this was the same as a Tundish.

Question

We are having some major issues with Welsh water over the use of tundish’s and  “A” class  air gaps on 20 Grid Combination ovens.
Because the drain is so low we are unable to get a tundish fitted and maintain a 50 air break above the tundish.
We have spoken in depth with Wade Drains and under floor traps but welsh water are being a nightmare.
Has any other member had issues and how have they overcome it.
We have ensured all items used are WRAS approved and they have been quite helpful   but DWR CYMRU  +Welsh water are not  helping with advice or recommendations at all.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Replies:

1. Yes, we have had similar issues in different parts of the country. The only option (if rational)  is to fit feet extension and change the trollies to match, can’t recall if rational offer any extensions to the trollies. If another brand, you will need to do something similar or speak to the manufacturer on how to combat WRAS approval, it should be contained within the specific WRAS approval special notes.
2. We recently fitted “extensions” to the oven & Trolleys which increased the drain outlet by 70mm. These accessories are Rational products. Hope this helps.
3. We have had this and we had to fit a lift pump, so the unit drained into the pump then the water was pumped up and into a tundish, you do need to fit a vent upstand pipe In the pipe run between the combi and the pump to stop air locks etc
4. Has the member considered a waste water pump to resolve this issue? By installing a pump directly to the oven, the water can then be pumped upward to a tundish arrangement which in turn can then drain to the floor drain. We use either Saniflow Sanicom 1 or Grundfos Sololift2, commercial pumps.
5. Our advice would be to have site use a floor drain and sit the drain over the drain grate this does not require a tundish, we only use a tundish on 6 and 10 grids all 20 and 40 grids would be on a floor drain.  If it is too late to fit a floor drain, then fit a shallow tundish any fabricator can make or I have seen square type tundish’s used and cut down to suit.  So long as you have the correct gap this should suffice.  Some of our engineers also cut the pipe on and angle so that the back flow cannot happen.
6. Have they considered a Saniflow type system to lift the drain water to a higher level, and then drop into a tundish at about 1 metre high. I’m sure Rational do something on these lines.
7. We have installed a number of 20 grid combis they all were plumbed into floor gully’s but terminated above the gully, so we assumed this was the same as a Tundish.
8. From experience with 20/ 40 Grid or even double stacked combi ovens with any water authority there is always a potential drain issue. The options for a compliant installation are only:
   – Install drain over a 400mm (600mm) sq/ dia trapped floor gulley- no tundish but leave pipe 50mm above the gulley cover. ( using larger dia/ sq gulley allows for catching any splashing).
   – Install a combi drain pump- with triangular paddle from 1^st choice directly to oven then it will pump up and you can then if you only have a 2” drain pop up fit a tundish and a trap to the pipe and suspend the drain pipe from the pump 50mm above the tundish.
   Respectfully trying to fit any drain cover over a gulley that has a funnel or tundish style cover will not fit under the drain pipe and give a gap as required.
9. We (Space) recently fitted “extensions” to the oven & Trolleys which increased the drain outlet by 70mm. These accessories are Rational products.
10. We have had this and we had to fit a lift pump so the unit drained into the pump then the water was pumped up and into a tundish, you do need to fit a vent upstand pipe In the pipe run between the combi and the pump to stop air locks etc. Has the member considered a waste water pump to resolve this issue? By installing a pump directly to the oven the water can then be pumped upward to a tundish arrangement which in turn can then drain to the floor drain. We use either Saniflow Sanicom 1 or Grundfos Sololift2, commercial pumps.
11. Our advice would be to have site use a floor drain and sit the drain over the drain grate this does not require a tundish, we only use a tundish on 6 and 10 grids all 20 and 40 grids would be on a floor drain.  If it is too late to fit a floor drain then fit a shallow tundish any fabricator can make or  I have seen square type tundish’s used and cut down to suit.  So long as you have the correct gap this should suffice.  Some of our engineers also cut the pipe on and angle so that the back flow cannot happen.
12. Have they considered a Saniflow type system to lift the drain water to a higher level, and then drop into a tundish at about 1 metre high. I’m sure Rational do something on these lines.
13. I had a very similar experience with Yorkshire water on a 20 grid combi oven. In the end I had to fit a Munson ring and back plate to the floor just next to the trapped floor gulley and lower it to its minimum so that there was still a fall on the waste from the back of the oven and the waste outlet being hovered above the floor gulley created an “air gap” we actually trimmed some of elbow off the rational elbow to increase the gap slightly. On our site this satisfied the water authority.
14. We have installed a number of 20 grid combis they all were plumbed into floor gully’s but terminated above the gully so we assumed this was the same as a Tundish.