Question

Does anyone know who makes/imports something like these copper pans ideally for use with induction but if not just use with ceran plates. Thank you

Replies

1. Try Paula Shirlock – paula.sherlock@signature-fse.com – not sure that it’s specific to the style but we have used copper pans on both induction and electric / Gas appliances. she only works through distribution.
2. Far East Industries Ltd.
3. The only supplier I could think of was Mauviel, they don’t have that exact one as your pic.‘You could be perhaps interested in our hammered Items ? you will find this product in our M’Tradition collection (see above picture).’Contact details below should you want to get in touch – Myriam GACEM m.gacem@mauviel.com
4. Please refer to http://skyra.in/skyserv-induction-chafers

Question

Does any of our members have a good contact that can help with the disposal of old commercial refrigeration units as we are constantly asked to remove old when supplying replacements?

Replies

1. Fosters and Williams do good rate if replacing with theirs or CEF but over £150 unit.
2. All the fridge manufacturers or wholesalers would remove for a set price. For instance Foster charge £58 per cabinet to remove environmentally if they are delivering a new cabinet at the same time. Prices vary according according to the supplier.
3. When supply replacements – get the manufacturer to pick up the old unit.
4. We have tended to have the old uplifted with the new cabinet being supplied and charged for the services accordingly.
5. It depends upon the members location of course but we use Pentland Wholesale who charge £40 per cabinet.
6. We use HLCE Group, they are very reliable and dispose of units in an environmentally safe way.  Their number is 01162 602222 or 01162 601133.
7. Fosters will take away and dispose for a nominal fee if its their kit that’s being delivererd (I believe Gram and Williams offer a similar deal).
   Otherwise I use our logistics company IAC to take them away and dispose of them (and yes usually its part of a refurb so we put the old fridges to one side and they collect them when they do the delivery of the new stuff – I only pay about £30 for them to take away, degas and dispose).
8. We have had many issues over the last few years with this so always quote the suppliers disposal service as an option to the customer.
   Most collect an old unit on delivery of the new it just has to be outside ready to be taken.
9. Ask them to check out a company called Cool Concerns or Solutions they used to dispose of all our stuff across the country.
10. Although does come with a cost we usually get the manufacturer/supplier to take the old away when delivering the new.

Question

Not a new problem I know but we are struggling to find engineers at the moment despite advertising widely including in Catering Insight and others etc and offering good packages.

Please could ceda ask if any members have had success in advertising for such staff in any particular media or on-line marketplace?

Replies

1. It’s always a problem that’s why we have ran an apprentice scheme for last 10 years breeding our own as such not much help in short term but it was our only way to a solution. 90% of ours are home grown as such and we’re taking on 3 more this year.
2. Have some sympathy with them. We are trying too! We have taken a couple of guys recently who are from other aspects of our industry, not sure if that is helpful.
3. Catering Insight offers no value at all for finding engineers in my opinion. We have great success using CV Bay.
4. t’s absolutely dire.  We can advertise and get not one single reply and we also desperately need two more Catering Engineers.  We can train all other types of job functions but with the syllabus for Gas, we can’t cover it all because we’re specialists and there isn’t a single college providing appropriate courses.I honestly think that’s where we should aim our efforts.  We’ve invested in the East Kilbride Engineering Training Group over the past two years for 2 Apprentices on a 26 week block training with 4 days there and 1 at a local college doing another course.  The standard of intake was really poor, and we had to put them through a Glasgow City Council scheme to get any grant contribution.  The City Council were absolutely hopeless and in the end the East Kilbride people provided names, we interviewed – they were not the standard we wanted but we decided to try because boys can be late developers and put them through the Council application afterwards to get the grant.One boy did one term and deemed it too far to travel to East Kilbride (it was costing us £8000 for the course), and the other has just completed his 2^nd year with us but is really not up to standard.  Neither will be Engineers but it was difficult to attract the right calibre for anything at 16/17.  We have taken a late Apprentice at 24 who is turning out extremely well.

   We are in the same boat for Engineers and I think possibly a route to try is to take a partly qualified guy and invest in him.  I did have that conversation at the CEDA Conference last year with someone who said that was all very well but then they went off to work for themselves.  Well, you have to take a chance all through business and some you win and some you lose.  Good luck to the member trying.

5. Had no success re media. It’s been word of mouth. Head hunting or agency.

Question

Please could you ask ceda members if any of them recommend a company for grease trap servicing?

Replies

1. Aluline (Group) Limited
   59-62 Brindley Road
   Astmoor Industrial Estate
   Runcorn
   Cheshire
   WA7 1PFTel Number +44 (0)1928 563532
   Fax number +44 (0)1928 580224
2. I know that EPAS do provide servicing for machines they fit so may be able to help. If not I’m sure they’ll be able to point you in the right direction; Gareth O’Neill is very helpful.Environmental Products and Services Ltd.
   UK Office
   Unit 6
   Phoenix Court
   Whitehill Industrial Estate
   Hammond Avenue
   South Reddish
   Stockport
   Manchester
   SK4 1PQTel: 0161 477 5555

   Tel: 0161 477 4608

   Freephone No: 0800 0778842

   Email: Stockport@EPAS-ltd.com

3. Watling Hope – 01789 740757
4. Roz Dean, RG Facilities – Tel: 07545 429754
5. Mechline Developments Ltd – http://www.mechline.com/

Question

Could you ask the members if they’ve ever been asked (or indeed if they HAVE) £10m Professional Indemnity insurance?

We currently have £1m and that has been sufficient until this latest request apparently initiated by the leaseholder of the building to increase it to £10m and also the guarantee to hold for 12 years.

Whilst I’m getting a quote from our insurance agents (who think it will be in the £10k plus cost) – has anyone else been asked or do they have thoughts on this?

Replies

1. As businesses grow and their exposure into the market also does in particular working in Leased Properties and Main Contractor Sites then the insurance requirements also rise I’m afraid.
   It is typical for a business with spread of this work to be requested hold the following as a minimum requirement
   • 10m Products
   • 10m Public
   • 5m Design

   In some cases you may also be asked to secure a Performance Bond which can be facilitated by the Bank.
   Hope this helps.

2. We have 1 million however were also asked for 12 Years so we charged the client the whole amount for it which was £20 k over the 12 Years.
3. We have £10m P.I. insurance which is broken down as follows;Professional Indemnity
   Limit of Indemnity: £5,000,000 any one occurrence.
   Professional Indemnity Excess of Loss.
   Limit of Indemnity: £5,000,000 any one occurrence.TOTAL PROFESSIONAL INDEMNITY LIMIT OF INDEMNITY – £10,000,000

   It’s not uncommon in our capacity as principal designer to be asked for £10m cover. But the member is right…it isn’t cheap.
   Hope this helps.

4. We’ve been asked for this amount once in the 20 years I’ve worked in this industry. This was on tender work. We argued back that we weren’t covering the whole of the Councils properties & our work would not exceed more than £1 million. They did not have an answer as to why they were asking for £10 million (!) I would be asking why they warrant such a figure & to justify this, as to increase to £10 million is an absolute fortune.
   Hope it helps.
5. We’ve been asked and it made no sense at all. I pushed back on this exact point with a large national customer and a tender situation. Essentially they didn’t care until I said we’ll pass across the undisclosed costs to them, then they listened and did the sensible thing.
6. We work with a maximum cover of £5m professional indemnity insurance, this has always been acceptable to our clients.
   You do get the odd Collateral warranty document that will request 10milion cover that we always question when you consider the typical size of a catering contract.
   We have never had a client / builder refuse to proceed when we have questioned this.
   Hope this helps.
7. We regularly get asked for £10m even up to £50m, we have £5m and we take a stance that is what we have and that’s that. To date it has always been accepted.
   £1m is a bit low £2m would be the norm, if the distributor would like a competitive quote try:
   Darren Cronin   ACII, Chartered Insurance Broker
   Client Director
   Jelf Clarke Roxburgh
   Tel: 01527 311146   Mob: 07971 065317
   Email: Darren.Cronin@jelfgroup.com
8. 12 years is normal – We have been asked for 5 and 10 million and have always challenged it and 99% of the time it’s been fine that said we have now put 5 in place for a couple of contracts.
9. We have £1m professional indemnity and that has always been fine, we design kitchens for Local Authorities. Maybe the members client is getting confused with Public / Employers Liability Insurance, we have that at £10m.
10. We also have £1m cover and regularly get asked (or required) to have a much higher level. Each time we bat it back along the same lines that £1m should be more than sufficient for our works.
    When we are working on large tenders, they are normally consultant led therefore  we would not require PI.
    When we have enquired about pricing, very similar and you are required to keep it in place for 6,10 or sometimes 12 years.
11. Yes. We have been asked for exactly same, over 12yrs. You can get it from ceda insurance recommended company for 1500.00 a yr. Contact Chris Wheatley at Jelf group. Tel: 01527 311147
12. Might be worth double checking the type of insurance as we have had requests for £10m insurance. We took a further £8,000,000 insurance on public and products liability to meet the requirements.
13. We have just been asked a similar question. We have been asked for 2m cover, talking to our insurance we should only req 500k or 1m at the most due to our turnover and risk. As not one project warrants a policy for miss information  etc over 1m. It’s a strange question and we are also still looking into it.
14. Try Darren Cronin Darren.Cronin@jelfgroup.com at Jelf Clarke Roxburgh. They are aceda Associate https://ceda.co.uk/meet-our-members/associates/show/207
15. This is becoming more frequent but appears to be a standard catch all requirement generally requested by the landlords legal adviser. These amounts are excessive and we always argue the point that the nature and value of the works does not warrant that level.
    We do similar to the member below and quote on a one off basis and give the client the option of either pay the extra amount or accept the current level of cover.
16. Professional Indemnity Insurance.
    It seems that the Banks are asking for this as part of the loan agreement. We have had one that has asked for ten years cover, presumably  this was the period of the loan.
    It maybe that we all need some help on this one.
    At the moment we are refusing on the basis that we are not Consultants and do not charge for drawings. Furthermore we are not qualified to give this guarantee.
    My attitude is that we do not design the water, electric, gas, or air systems we just put items of furniture on the end of them.  We do assist the Customer in putting the items in the right place. But that is as far as it goes.
    I would be interested in the views of someone more knowledgeable than me.
17. We were asked for £2m for 12 years on a secondary school kitchen project and managed to argue it down to £1 for 6 years. Key thing here is that PI insurance only covers financial loss arising from design issue. It is extremely unlikely that the financial loss incurred will ever be over £1m. Also they will be tied into paying the increased cost for the next 12 years if they accept!!!
    Darren Cronin darren.cronin@jelfgroup.com at Jelf is the expert on this stuff – I would advise them to speak with him.Please refer to: https://ceda.co.uk/meet-our-members/associates/show/207
18. We have this a lot and normally a reduced PI is accepted by negotiation (ours is £2m). They will have to hold it for 12yrs if they provide a collateral warranty, which the landlord will require. It could be £1k per million PI easily, so £10k for 10m.
19. We have and require £10 Million for local government and MOD projects. We use UK Special Risks. Ask for Matthew and quote us as the lead I’m sure they will be very helpful – Tel: 01634 862525

Question

Please could you ask ceda members if they know where we might purchase something like the below image of a counter top rapid wine cooler in the UK please?

Replies

1. Valera used to do them so Pratap Gadhvi could probably help somehow. Or try Autonumis….
2. I believe FEM used to do one, not sure if they still do

Question

We have had architects on the small kitchens we’re designing (both of which have condense/self-vent hoods rather than ventilation) asking what heat the equipment that’s being put in, will generate. As we have not been asked this before we wondered if the members could advise?

Replies

1. I would think that the suppliers/manufacturers like Hobart, Winterhalter, Meiko, etc., could/would provide this information.
2. This issue is one of general ventilation as the self-condensing hoods recirculate the air removing smells and vapour that is then put to the main drain of the oven. Some of the heat will then go down the drain but not all of it. In this case we would normally specify the Ultravent Plus from Rational.Rational Spec: Our UltraVent® condensation technology is also available in an UltraVent® Plus model, which is equipped with special filters to prevent steam as well as bothersome smoke that could otherwise develop when grilling or roasting. This makes it possible to install RATIONAL units in more demanding locations as well, such as front cooking areas.As a failsafe we always ask for some general extraction and make up air to deal with the heat issue.
3. When I am asked for this I advise the heat rejection for all refrigerated appliances (which can normally be easily gained from the manufacturers cut sheet’s) and the electrical or gas connected load for all cooking appliances, its then for the M and E consultant to calculate the heat rejection allowance.They should do/normally do this based on the CIBSE guide http://www.cibse.org/knowledge/knowledge-items/detail?id=a0q20000008I79JAAS section 6.7 which takes the heat gain calculation from ASHREA Table 6.17 Typical rates of heat gain from restaurant and cooking equipment (6)(Copyright 2005, ©American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and AirConditioning Engineers, Inc. (www.ashrae.org) see section 6 of the below Guide:CIBSE-Guide-A-Environmental-Design.pdf 

   This may have been updated since this publication.

4. This information should be taken from the KW load which their M&E consultant should be able to calculate. Fridge manufacturer should be able to. Advise on the heat dump. Please note even if self venting with no dedicated cooking extract the rooms will need fresh air changes to comply with regs.

Question

Would it be possible to ask the membership if they know of a good contact at Trak Hupfer?  We’re taking out an existing system so we can replace the dishwasher and then re-installing it. BUT we need to put a wastepro under it and it won’t fit!

The service lady says they ‘sort out problems 99% of times on site’ but as you can imagine I want to KNOW it’ll work – happy to pay for an engineer to come to site but can’t get past the ‘front desk’.

I’m sure other ceda members would want a solution BEFORE installation starts so any helpful names who could facilitate a visit prior to work starting would be appreciated.

Replies

1. Dave Coburn.
2. Dave Coburn or Ian Hodgson on Tel: 07917155571
3. Mark Reynolds mark@trakhupfer.co.uk is the Sales Manager I have dealt with in the past not sure if he is still there or Keith May is the draughtsman.
4. Contacts:07917 155571 – Ian07917 155575 – Dave Coburn

Question

Flooring repairs:  I need to find a flooring specialist in central London to look at and make repairs to an existing altro floor.
Thanks in advance for your help on this.

Replies

1. John A Hart Contract Flooring, they do a lot of work in Harrods and are an altro recommended flooring specialist – http://johnhartflooring.co.uk/Really good guys – Neil and Jon
2. JONES FLOORING LTD jonesflooringltd@gmail.comWorcestershire – 01386 870981

Question

Can ceda members help direct us to select a suitable CRM system that will help us as a growing business.

Our member is interested in knowing what system most ceda members currently use and what capabilities can be added taking into account the following:

• Easy to use CRM
• Integrates to an accounts system (not necessary but would help)
• Easy allocation of engineers jobs etc.

Replies

1. We have been using “CLIK” This is an affordable fully maintained and updated system, it also has a remote module to alleviate paper worksheets from the engineers. We have had it for many years but only recently over the last 3 months been using it to its full capability and it is proving very effective.
2. We use a system that we have used since 1999 , it has served us well during that time and has grown with us.The system will work from single user right up to multi users and we have now gone all electronic with it so no more paper sheets.The Company is CLIK Limited, they have a very good web site as well , where the demo versions can be viewed.

   Their sales contact is Paul Snowdon. Tel: 0117 902 2012

3. We use Clik service with integration of Clik Jobs Ipad App for the engineers worksheets. It has all the functions we need for the number of engineers we have currently which is 8.
   It has integration with desktop accounts packages such as Sage, with integration with cloud based packages such as quickbooks and xero coming soon (so I am told).
4. We use a system called Service Director, it uses android handsets as PDA’s and it links into some aspects of Sage accounting.
5. We use Jobwatch by Bigchange.
6. We use Clik for this very purpose and have settled very well into it.  This integrates into Sage for accounting purposes – https://www.cliksoftware.com