Question

Whilst we always will attempt to gain direct client orders we have had to accept the JCT Sub-contract route for a current London project.

I have scrutinised the Main Contractors special amendments, which can be a minefield, but have also been required to provide Professional Indemnity Insurance for the Sub-Contractor’s Designed Portion (£10,000,000 for 12 years).

Have any other members:

A. Found a good source of cover for this PI

B. Argued successfully against it (and on what specific grounds) NB: in this instance we have not been the sole designer, both our client and architects have modified our original design significantly. This argument however falls on deaf ears with the head client and their consultants.

C. Dealt with main contractor Jerram Falkus and have any pointers on sub-clauses created by them which have been found to be particularly onerous

Replies

1. For professional indemnity we would suggest that you contact Jelf Clarke Roxborough. Contact Darren Cronin – Tel: 01527 405433, Mobile: 07971 065317
2. 1. A. Jelf Darren Cronin
   2. B. No – basically ensure they sign off current design and record any objections you have on design issues where they have changed it.
   3. C. No – Negotiate each point
3. Chris wheatley@jelfgroup.com is the man. He is also ceda approved supplier.
4. We hold £1m PI and have done for many years. We have always managed to persuade the client to accept it on the grounds that £1m should be sufficient for our portion of the works. There has only been one exception where the main contractor would not change their requirement even though we kept telling them it was a £50k care home. They insisted on £2m but we convinced them to pay for it and have it only for 1 year, which we all know completely defeats the purpose of PI. The QS just needed to tick a box. £10m for 12 years is extremely onerous and expensive especially where the design has been a joint effort. We buy our PI through Jelf who are known to CEDA.
5. I managed to persuade them that it wasn’t suitable for the kitchen element of the project and finally it worked – so can only advise persistence. The reply we received was ‘We have had a break through and had confirmation from Lend Lease that £1m PI is acceptable!! Can you come back to me on the Terms and Conditions please ASAP and hopefully we can put this to bed.’
6. I have argued successfully against P.I. We only do drawings for the convenience of our clients we have no qualification to allow us to take responsibility for these drawings, Nor do we make a charge for design. Quite simply we do not have PI insurance because we do not take any responsibility. We simply delete this paragraph from the contract when we send it back, there is usually a bit of argument but in the end, they have always excepted it. I remember one contract we crossed out about 2/3 of the contract clauses and it was accepted. If they want someone to take responsibility, they need to engage a consultant.
7. There are lots of companies out there, but we use Jelf Clarke Roxburgh. We always argue against it on the basis that what we are doing is relatively small and low risk and have always got the to agree to £1mill to date

Question

A member has been asked about fire protection for cold rooms and it was intimated that it would have to comply with BS9999 (2017).

Has any member any experience with similar questions or related issues?

Replies

1. 1. I usually supply and install PIR fire rated panels for cold rooms where fire rating is required – which can be sourced via any cold room supplier such as Fosters who would typically use Kingspan. They can also do fire rated doors but these are not always required and if required are very expensive
   2. We did have this on one job a while back. I remember that getting fire-rated panels was achievable but involved a special order from the manufacturers in Germany (with associated costs and effects on lead-time). It was either Celltherm or Coldplan. Like a lot of projects, it will come down to how heavily regulated that particular site chooses to be – if the architects/consultants have set the safety bar that high and require such compliance, in our experience it has been pointless trying to argue against it.

Question

We are currently in the closing stages of the order process for a couple of large projects and the subject of collateral warranties has reared its head.

Are there any likely pitfalls that you are aware of, and are we obliged to sign up for this in the first place?
Your help is much appreciated as ever.

Replies

1. Collateral Warranties are a necessary evil I’m afraid and form part of the JCT process. You may find that if you do not sign up to these that the contract may be let to a third party.The key thing is to read them carefully and ensure that you have the relevant cover in place for claims that could be made in the years to come.
2. Firstly are they involved in any forms of design for the contracts they are undertaking if yes then CW’s are a norm these days with most builders and clients.My advice is to ensure they get copies of the CW document completed in their company names and details not just a blank version then run it by their own insurers to make sure that the insurance cover request in the CW fall within their own coverage and that their insurer is aware of the contract and duration.In most cases it’s the value of insurance that needs to be clarified only before they can sign, also most builders will accept you amending the insurance value to your limitations.
3. It seems more and more common.I think you will have to sign up to it. You will need professional indemnity if you don’t all ready have it and it is quite costly. It will need to be in place for the term of the warranty often 12 years.For professional indemnity we use Jelf Clarke Roxborough. Contact Darren Cronin – Tel: 01527 405433, Mobile: 07971 065317
4. These are very complicated. I suspect they are there to protect the client from future defects. Your enquirer doesn’t state what the projects are, have they carried out any structural alterations etc. I would suspect there are some very dangerous pitfalls and would get advice from a lawyer who specialises in contractual law.
5. We are regularly asked to complete these where there is a 3rd party involved in the transaction. Mainly main contractor driven and of a fairly standard format.They exist to ensure that the responsibilities and warranties within the project can be legally passed on to the end client.The responsibilities should be no more than what is in place with the client.One thing which I always check and often need to challenge is the professional indemnity level. Often the level in the collateral warranty be higher than the level in the initial contract, just because the parties haven’t “joined up” this bit. It’s important that this is checked as it can have a big implication, not least in cost.
6. If you call Build UK and say that you are a ceda member you can ask for their advice with regards to your enquiry: https://builduk.org/ Tel: 0844 249 5351

Question

DIGITAL DISPLAYS: Do you know anyone that has a system for the TV’s in our restaurant. We need a system, so we can put our menus/marketing on the screen.

Replies

1. There is a company that brewery Wadworth & Co Ltd use in any of their sports pub fit-outs – Chantry Digital Ltd in Westbury, Wiltshire – 0800 373246.
   They deal with digital signage as well as TV’s and I’ve met Neil Hawker neil@chantrydigital.co.uk at a few site meetings – seems to know his stuff when it comes to AV.
   I’ve just called them and they would be able to create digital menu displays.

Question

We supplied and installed a Lincat Q90 island cooksuite in 2014 and are having ever greater problems in finding spare parts since Lincat decided to terminate their relationship with the Giga factory in Italy. Does anyone know where there is a reliable source for Q90 spares? Lincat, Middleby and First Choice have not been able to help us.

Replies

1. Try Euro catering – 01455 559969.
2. Try GEV or LF Spares…
3. Try GEV or LF Spares…
4. I can help to some degree, many of the components in figs Q90 were changed by Lincat and don’t always correspond.  However with right info I can help out.  I have a good relationship with the Italian factory.Kind regards,Amjad AlikhanGeneral Catering Ltd
   Unit 6 Croft court
   Doncaster
   DN3 1QL
   Tel: 01302 340742
5. E mail the factory in Italy for UK agent, google will translate?
   Try Commercial Catering Spares possibly .
6. Contact Richard Fordham – 07968426302info@cuisine-europe.com
7. Try GEV 01476 583922. I would also be asking Lincat what they propose to do about it.
8. They could try cater parts, they are not always thought of as spares partners for catering equipment but they do have a tie in with the Italian manufactures and do a lot of Italian kit , both washware and catering or possibly LF spares again they are big on the Italian front and have a very good web site

Question

Could you ask if any other CEDA member has been asked to provide the following when doing a kitchen refurbishment (this is a one off not part of a full building refurbishment)

2.1.1.1.          Provide an electronic signing-in system that monitors and measures staff attendance levels as detailed in supplier’s tender submission.

2.1.1.2.          Provide a web based quality monitoring and reporting system in which client can access reports through a self-service portal as detailed in [insert name of successful supplier’s] tender submission.

I know Mace and other main contractors do this, but for a simple Kitchen house for a £100k kitchen it’s a bit ‘sledge hammer – nut’ – unless this IS what’s being asked and how do other CEDA members provide this?

Replies

1. As far as I’m aware we’ve never been asked, if this is through a main contractor could they “piggy back” on their system ?

Question

We are doing the kitchen and servery consultancy for a new build and as part of the tender have been asked for a “statement of non-compliance”.

Could any of the members help as Lendlease has not explained anymore detail on what we need to put in the statement?

Replies

1. I think this would possibly need someone with legal knowledge.
2. I would imagine that this is a statement of where the supplier has quoted an alternative specification (ie has not complied with the tender specification)
3. I have had a conversation with our ISO adviser and we would suggest the following:What to Include in a Non-conformance StatementThe statement of non-conformance should be concise, self-explanatory, and related to the process. It should not restate the audit evidence. Instead, it should record the requirement against which the non-conformance was detected.A non-conformance statement should include three distinct parts:
   • Non-conformance: Clearly define and document the systemic failure within the non-conformance.
   • Objective evidence: Quote the appropriate standard clause, work instruction, procedure or process requirement.
   • Stated requirement: What objective evidence is/was used to indicate a non-conformance existed? What record, document, procedure was used to verify existence of a non-conformance?

   I would suggest that the member would respond by stating that any areas of non-compliance will be:

   Statement

   • Any non-conformance will be Clearly defined and documented.
   • The appropriate standard, clause, work instruction, procedure or process requirement will be stated.
   • Records, documents and procedures that were used to verify existence of a non-conformance will be listed.

Question

We are looking for a “Slider” Induction Hob which can be fitted into the underside of a service counter which is finished in marble or granite. They do not want the ceramic plate itself to be visible?

Does anyone know if such a product is available on the market suitable for this, and if so who would supply it?

Replies

1. Induced Energy and MCS both do them to my knowledge.
2. I would suggest Induced Energy, will be able to assist.Nic BannerSales DirectorInduced Energy LimitedMob:    07788 714599

   Email:   nic@inducedenergy.com

3. MCS Technical Products – https://ceda.co.uk/partners/showMember/105
4. I can only think to suggest contacting MCS Technical Products in Swindon who are very much into niche and bespoke induction products. But I would think that the member has probably already approached them?Alternatively, maybe buy a standard shallow profile induction hob and ask their fabricators to make a roller carriage cassette to accept such a unit?
5. Try Craig @ Induced Energy. Really good product and a really helpful chap. Craig Sanders (craig@inducedenergy.com)
6. I believe MCS do these kind of induction hobs that go under the granite.
7. Yes, Cooktek do a Selenzio Inductione (or similar) which works below the surface and is invisible – also Grande Cuisine do a version as does Catertherm.
8. Induced energy will be the best for this.
9. Controlled Energy. They don’t like selling them if they not building the unit, but you can try.
10. MCS produce an induction based undercounter warmer that will worth through most stones and composite materials.
    It is just a warmer rather than a cooker but a good place for them to start discussions.
    http://www.mcstechproducts.co.uk/brands/under-counter-buffet-warmers
11. Ask them to call MCS Technical, product spec as below:
    B65x-U-Tech-Spec-12157-A-USINTL.pdf 
12. The only way I am aware of doing that for COOKING (not holding) is using the induced energy unit, however typically this needs to be under pyrolave talk to induced energy.
    If just holding cookteck by MCS technical using the incognito is the other option but only for holding.
13. Take a look at the following https://www.controlinduction.co.uk/commercial-induction-catering-equipment/the-slider-induction-solid-top.html as they mention a slider.
14. Contact Peter Rigby of MCS Technical Products for the Cooktek induction products to solve their under-surface induction solution.
15. Grande Cuisine do some excellent units that will go under stone / granite – they are only for keeping hot – not for cooking, but your member is probably aware of this limitationhttp://www.grandecuisine.co.uk/sites/default/files/GC-Brochure-Adventys-Web_0.pdf

Question

I am searching for a 300mm slicer for spares, model is Sirman / Canova / Ital, CNV300AFFR in particular I need the meat carrier and spike. Can any of our members help?

Replies

1. Have you tried First Choice who may be able to supply? http://www.firstchoice-cs.co.uk
2. FEM are the Sirman company in the UK.
3. The UK distributor FEM  hold spares (foodservice equipment marketing Ltd). Telephone 01355 244111
4. FEM supply these, I’m sure they could help? http://www.fem.co.uk/contact-us/
5. FEM are distributors for Sirman.
6. Try FEM – I would think they are agents for Sirman brand.
7. I have attached drawings, FEM can supply the parts.Cnv-ce-4.pdfCnv-std-ce-3..pdf

   CNV300-std-ce-1-2012.pdf

   Cnv300-std-ce-2.pdf

   interr-ce-prof.pdf

   puls-opera.pdf

8. Spares can be purchased via FEM, who run the agency. Tel no: 01355 244 111
9. We often use LF Spares for Sirman/Ital parts.Exploded diagrams are also available on the website.
10.  think Ital products are sold by Nisbets/RB Distributors, Uropa.
11. I’ve attached drawings from August 2016 onwards, I take it you are meaning 002, the Meat Press, p/n 19801235, this has the spikes, but I’m not sure what you mean by ‘meat carrier’.Canova-300-From-August-2016-Parts-Breakdown.xlsxCanova-300-From-August-2016-Parts-Diagram.pdf
12. I would have thought Firstchoice would stock, if not them RB as this is one of the Uropa brands.

Question

Would the members be able to help us with a couple of queries that have arisen that we can’t find definitive answers to?

• Spoon dipper wells – we’ve put a cold-water feed, chef wants hot. What is the recommendation?
• Bar sinks – 2 slop sinks with cold water, wash hand basin with hot (and hot water in sinks in the back room) – Bar manager says all sinks should have hot and cold. Is he correct?

As I said I can’t find ‘proper’ answers but would welcome the advice of my learned colleagues.

Replies

1. The answer is mixer valves. Hot and cold mixed.
2. Please find below a link from Food Standards agency page 7 handwash should be hot and cold, page 9 sinks should be able to be sanitised (you cannot do this with just cold)hygieneguidebooklet.pdfAs for spoon dipper wells if this is a fixed well as opposed to a removable one then we would normally connect to a hot supply.
3. We don’t do many bars so our experience is limited.
   For a slop sink cold water should suffice in sluicing down and discarded drinks – I imagine hot would assist with clearing down any cocktail/cream liqueur ingredients with a fat content. This might be what the client is driving at?
   Regarding the spoon dipper wells I can only think that the chef wants warmth in the metal of the spoon, to assist in food leaving the spoon onto the plate (as well as cleaning the spoon between scoops).
   I am not aware of either being a ‘requirement’ as such.
   I hope this is of some use.
4. Sorry I am not sure maybe speak to WIAPS/WRAS.
5. With regards to dipper wells it should only ever be cold feed, aside of anything else it is (or should be) constant running water and with a hot connection you would be literally pouring money down the drain – dipper wells do use a surprisingly large amount of water even with the tap turned to a very slow flow.
   As for slops sinks I would tend to spec both hot and cold but there isn’t a specific requirement or reason for hot it’s down to personal preference.