Question

We supply among other equipment refrigeration units for purchase/rental. We have been asked to collect an old unrepairable unit from a site who are purchasing new from us. We have not previously offered this service. We are looking for information on the correct disposal of these units and a depo near Staffordshire we can take the units too?

Replies

1. This may be a starting point – https://www.businesswaste.co.uk/waste-management-staffordshire/
2. Our local council offer this service, you have to take it too them, but you dispose how you would a domestic. BUT there is a charge of around £95.00 depending on the size of the unit.
3. Most companies who sell refrigeration offer a collection and WEEE compliant disposal service too. Seeing that a new unit is being delivered does the supplier involved in selling the unit not offer this? Getting rid of refrigeration with a generic waste management company tends to be very expensive – we’ve asked ‘Grundon’ in the past for example and they have quoted around £250 for a single cabinet! However, suppliers like Foster are much cheaper if they are selling kit too – they will remove a like-for-like piece of refrigeration for around £60.
4. Not sure about Staffordshire but Pentland Wholesale in Lancashire offer a disposal service – from around £40 per cabinet from memory if delivered to them.
5. Ask the manufacturer to pick up on delivery of new unit.
6. Firstly, the refrigerant will need to be reclaimed and a waste transfer notice completed and then we call the local recycling business in our case its wards recycling and they quote a cost to dispose of them, alternatively they can keep it at their premises until they have a few and hire a skip and dispose of them that way but you must tell the skip hire place that it’s refrigeration items as this is an additional charge. What we try to do to avoid this is ask the manufacturer of the new appliance to collect the old one and dispose of it which they will do for an additional cost normally around £60/£100 and it saves the time of reclaiming the gas and collecting it etc etc.
7. Cef (city electrical factors) can offer the collection service nationwide from dealer premises, they won’t collect from site, but it will cost anything from £150 to £250 dependant on unit size.

Question

Can anyone recommend a suitable outfit for post installation equipment training for complete kitchen projects, similar to the service offered by Radford Chancellor?

Replies

1. We’ve used Alan Evans in the past for end user training, as he’s an independent chef trainer. Tel: 07526 245430
2. Richard Goodchild can offer this service (ex. KCCJ). Comprehensive experience with kitchen projects and now heading up Alset & Partners. Email: richard@alsetpartners.com Tel: 0207 205 2296
3. We arrange it ourselves with the manufacturers, producing a training schedule (that the staff sign to say they’ve been trained and which can be kept on their files) and we then co-ordinate on the day and then cover the basics ourselves such as cleaning of stainless steel, the fridges and items such as the slicer/mixer – so very basic.

Question

Please can we ask the Helpdesk if any members can recommend or suggest a Freelance Project Manager?

Replies

1. 1. Paul Downes of Surefire Contract Management. Been in the industry for years and a very knowledgeable resource.
   2. Trevor Jones – Green Design & Project Management. Tel: 07900 181475
   3. Contact Charlie Parker. Email: charlesparkercbp@outlook.com
   4. Doug Perea dougperea@dapces.com
   5. Ian Whiston, based up here Oldham way but does cover the country. Tel: 07864 702484
   6. Sanjai Rohatgi (Project Manager). Tel 07854 922012. Email: Sajai.rohatgi@jivefax.co.uk

Question

I am looking for a company in and around the London area that can offer help with a strip out and removal of an existing kitchen along with storage of equipment to be retained and then some consolidation and delivery back to site.

Replies

1. 1. Danny Kett at Clean Air Systems. Tel: 01376 335356
   2. Court Catering Equipment Limited. Tel: 0208 576 6520. Website: www.courtcatering.co.uk
   3. FSW Gas Services. Tel: 0161 943 0268. Website: www.fswgasservices.co.uk
   4. Chiller Box Ltd. Tel: 0800 849 1188. Website: www.chillerbox.com
   5. Archer Catering Systems Ltd. Tel: 0161 737 8307
   6. Cleanstart, 25b Barking Industrial Park, Ripple Road, Barkin, Essex, IG11 0TJ Contact: Ron McEwen cleanstart12@btconnect.com Mobile: 07775537038 Tel: 02085945088. Ron will also clean and service the equipment.
   7. General Catering Equipment Tel: 01302 340742 Website: www.generalcatering.co.uk
   8. C&C Catering Equipment Limited Website: https://cateringequipment.com/ Tel: 01244 625170
   9. Wilcox Burchmore. Website: www.wilcoxburchmore.co.uk Tel: 01895 630726
   10. AGGORA Projects Ltd. Website: www.aggora.com Tel: 0845 1177 555 ext: 132
   11. Mark Hazell | Senior Accounts Manager | Gratte Brothers Catering Equipment Ltd. Email mhazell@gratte.com Phone 01438 750022 | Mobile 07753915521

Question

Can any members recommend a good supplier for bean to cup coffee machines serving up to about 100 cups a day who are happy to deal with catering equipment companies (rather than those specifically in the coffee sector) aside from Brew Group?

Replies

1. Bravilor Adam https://www.bravilor.com/en-GB/product/freshground-xl-510/323
2. General Catering Ltd can help specifically with returned machines. They have large quantity of thermoplan bean to cup and all machines are in working order with full service history www.generalcatering.co.uk
3. Justin Stockwell @ Caffiene
4. Morvend. Contact: Andy Gurney andy@morvend.co.uk Tel: 0800 9775992. Mobile: 07825 113944. They are very helpful and professional, based in Herts.
5. Best person to talk to is Justin Stockwell, Managing Director – Justin@caffeinelimited.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1707-278400
6. The only company we have dealt with is WMF. They happily deal with distributors but are very ‘picky’ about installation which they insist on doing themselves and has to be 100% correct. And that means 100% They also like to develop a direct relationship with the client as well, which doesn’t always sit well. Other than that, good machines with good results.
7. Fracino http://www.fracino.com/downloads/brochures/cybercino.pdf
8. WMF

Question

Are you aware of whether many catering companies pay for ‘travel time’ from home to the first job / from last job? We have historically paid 1 ½ which doesn’t seem realistic or sustainable so any thoughts / feedback from other catering companies would be appreciated.

Replies

1. We do at Time and a half as long as they have completed 8 hours normal time.
2. We charge from our Works back to our Works even if the Engineer goes straight from home and unless a customer is on a Contract Rate. It is charged on the hourly labour rate with no additional mileage.
3. Our company has always paid for travel time.
4. Yes we come across this with some of the sub contractors we use.
5. We pay from home to home although I don’t agree.
6. No we don’t we charge one call out to site and that is it no matter where the engineer is, like wise RTF (return to fit) we charge a half call out RTf no matter where we come from and then standard labour when we hit site. There are some customers who pay a fuel surcharge over a certain distance but they are the multi site customers and we go from a contract set point so for example there is a set point in Newport and one in west wales and if we go over 50 miles from that point we can charge the distance less 50 miles , for example 78 miles would become a 28 mile diesel charge @ 50ppp
7. My guys are salaried so this forms part of their working day.
8. This has been a bone of contention for some time, and based on our research it is generally an industry norm.
   We pay from home to first job and last job to home minus 30 minutes from each way. This 30 minutes is an average amount of time that it would take to get to their place of work and back home (Head office) if they were generally local.
9. Our engineers have travelling included in costs due to time/distance element on our projects.
10. This is always a bone of contention. I personally find it greedy to a degree and the analogy I use is that the office staff have to get to work on time and the average travel time is 30mins and I don’t pay them so why would I pay the engineer. My rule of thumb is if they start at 07.30 and set off at 06.30 I pay the 1 hour at the overtime rate. I do understand that with me saying I wont pay the first half hour they will always set off the hour before so they do get paid. It is a very difficult one to know what to do for the best. Unfortunately because good engineers are hard to come by they do have us by the short and curly’s unfortunately.
11. My local engineers get paid from the office in the morning until they arrive home at night while the outside guys, who work from home, are paid from door to door.
12. We had this issue with an engineer, we paid both it is tricky I would recommend you negotiate all travel time no matter what the time is flat rate.
13. From experience, engineers pay is always door to door.
14. We don’t pay for the first 20 mins travel at the start and end of the day. If I remember correctly this was on the advice of our accountant or our engineers use of the vehicle to travel to work would be classed as a perk and therefore declarable to HMRC.
15. We pay engineers from company premises – if they go straight to a job near home then they have the advantage of a later start – if they go straight to a job further afield then we have the advantage of saving the travel time. We pay for 40 hours per week and retain a degree of flexibility.
16. Most companies I have dealt with will pay travel time, in particular the last call at the end of the day, as the geographical area covered can take the engineers out with the region their main office is located.

Question

We are designing the catering in a new build and the main client has told us that it’s our responsibility to design/draw the pipework route from the coldrooms to the roof located compressors. We’ve never done this before as its always been part of the M&E package. Could members advise either on their experience or a suitable reply?

Replies

1. The simplest way to achieve this is to get the cold room manufacturer on site to execute a full and detailed survey, they will then produce manufacturers drawings showing the route. There may be a cost for this exercise.
2. I would recommend they get the appropriate advice from their coldroom suppliers as usually there are oil traps required on a vertical run. They would have to agree a route with the builder or building management as this would depend on access physical provision of the route, so a site survey by the refrigeration supplier would need to happen. Also, usually containment is down to the builder so might be worth checking if that will be excluded also.
3. As a top quality ceda member surely the company who supplies the refrigeration install service would do this as a level of their competence.
4. Our experience of this was to ask our sub-contract cold-room installer who makes the cold-rooms up and was happy to provide us with the layout drawing as they were running the pipework. It does mean faffing around revisiting site if the walls are up and then planning the route, which can take some time. You must ensure that they the client provide a drawing showing all other plant or equipment as we found that the position of our pipe run was through a boiler that was not on their drawings. We also charged for this service . Hope this helps .
5. This needs to be coordinated by the M&E contractor/consultant but it is not unreasonable for them to ask the fridge contractor for this to be provided as a drawing. Suggest they throw back to the client and ask for confirmation of pipework route required for the coordination of the installation with other services and future maintenance. Ask for a full set of cad drawings for the route so once a route is agreed, get the fridge company to plot it on the drawing.
6. As a general rule of thumb this is the norm on most of the projects we undertake. The design and drawing would always be with the Cold Store provider.

Question

We are involved in a project where the client wants part of the service counter to have round ice cream tubs inset into a marble top. They have seen this at ‘Flatiron’ in London. Ice cream is scooped into cones then rolled in chocolate, hand shaved onto the marble top.

I am told that the insulated lift-out ice cream ‘buckets’ are standard but also that the undercounter is refrigerated in some way too to prolong the life of the ice cream.

Is anyone aware of this kind of display? Would refrigeration under be bespoke? Or is there no refrigeration at all and the tubs keep the ice cream usable for an extended period?

Any information (tubs or refrigeration) gratefully received!

Replies

1. Try Silver King. They have a drop in square freezer client could then put a circular collar around – https://www.silverking.com/project/skdi-drop-in-freezer/
2. http://www.ifi.it/en/display-cases-and-pozzetti via Carpiagiani
3. I’d say it’s a Bespoke Item and would therefore contact Counterline or Precision – so they can build to the clients specification
4. I think IFI do something like this – Just remove the lids – http://www.ifi.it/en/bellevue-panorama-technology.html
5. Nemox supply these or Framec they are ice cream freezers. 

Question

We are trying to find a supplier to replace the ceramic hot plates within this servery counter for a good client of ours.

Counter was originally manufactured by EMH. I have tried a couple of other servery counter suppliers who can’t help out. Site location: Guildford.

We are looking for a supplier who can remove existing and dispose, supply and install new ceramic plates to match. Size of hot plates and images below.

ceramic insert
all together 181cm/51cm as one piece
60cm/51cm each one individually.

Replies

1. 1. Contact CED to see if they know where the distributor could get the same plates from and then get service agent to fit them. The counter manufacturers won’t want to do it but CED might know what make plates they used?
   2. Contact Stuart Russell, Sales Director at CED Fabrications Ltd – Stuart.Russell@cedlimited.com Mobile: 07917303122
   3. What about Storer, 0115 9200329 they make the carvery decks for Mitchells & Butlers or you can buy them in from Hawco as one assembly and replace themselves they are usually only bedded in heat resistant silicone around the edges Hawco sell all that is required to do yourself.
   4. Contact Greg Swift – gregs@cateringfabrications.com
   5. This would be something AGGORA Projects could assist with. We would need to undertake a site survey before providing any costs, so would be grateful if you could forward our details to your member, that would be much appreciated. AGGORA Group, Centech House, Centech Park, North Moons Moat, Redditch, Worcestershire, B98 9NR. Office: 0845 1177 555 ext: 132 www.aggora.com
   6. We have purchased these before from spares company CCS. BUT they can be an odd size. You can un-silicone the pad off the bottom of the ceramic plate then re fit a new pad.Not the best job but okay for a good engineer…
   7. I believe First Choice can supply the parts.
   8. I believe the ceran plates and heater pads would have come from Hawco at 600 x 500mm each and they should be able to be installed and replaced as a set.It’s worth also checking the controller system EMH would have used as you may have to replace everything from controllers to the plates to ensure a correct installation.
   9. I would suggest that these will be Ceran Hotplates. These can be purchased complete with the Heater Mats fitted however the standard sizes are 500mm x 600mm each so look like the size detailed. When fitted they will also require the Black Heat Resistant Sealant. We cover this area and could carry out the works if required.
   10. The best person to sort this out is Stuart Russell, CED. He was EMH. Contact: Stuart.Russell@cedlimited.com 07917 303122
   11. One of the best ‘cut and carve’ companies with specialist servery abilities I’ve ever known are Essex Fabrications in Basildon, and reasonably close geographically.
   12. Try Hawco
   13. What about Storer, 0115 9200329 they make the carvery decks for Mitchells & Butlers or you can buy them in from Hawco as one assembly and replace themselves they are usually only bedded in heat resistant silicone around the edges Hawco sell all that is required to do yourself.
   14. They look like standard Ceran hotplate sections? But try Comet Catering in Enfield – they are a high-end fabricator we know well and have a lot of experience in a wide range of weird and wonderful bespoke countering! Julian Webb 0207 804 4779 – let him know that Fulcrum suggested Comet and he should be glad to assist.

Question

A ceda Member has requested recommendations and contact details for solicitors that have been used by fellow ceda Members, specifically on legal issues for ventilation.

Replies

1. I have previously taken advice from Ward Hadaway Solicitors. Fortunately, the issue we had was resolved amicably without the need for further legal assistance but one of their partners (see below) specialises in construction and associated engineering, so he may be able to advise on ventilation. Contact: Paul Reekie – Partner/Contruction & Engineering Unit Email: Paul.Reekie@wardhadaway.com Tel: +44 (0) 191 204 4331
2. Contact Rob Bywell, he’s a solicitor.
3. I would suggest that you contact Build UK as they should possibly be able to help or they may possibly be able to recommend a specialist solicitor. If you call Build UK and say that you are a ceda member you can ask for their advice with regards to your enquiry: https://builduk.org/ Tel: 0844 249 5351
4. Contractual and Legal (England and Wales) – Wedlake Bell – One hour’s free advice per year on construction law, contracts, dispute resolutions and retentions if you say you are a ceda Member. Tel: 0844 249 9871