Question

We have recently been challenged by Lincat & Falcon regards the subject of designing and installing gas salamanders above gas oven ranges.
We feel this is a vary grey area and can leave companies exposed to additional unrecoverable business costs which we want to avoid.
We would like to know what other  members experiences have been regards this issue.
Below is the communication we received from Falcon:-
We do not recommend Grill being placed over ranges and have not done now for a number of years, however it is solely up to the installing engineer and client to make the final decision regarding this, and any responsibility for such will be down to them.
The main reasons behind this are:
The sitting of grill above heat sources can cause components to see a higher temperature than would normally be expected and this in turn can lead to maintenance issues such as gas taps needing re-greased on a frequent basis and such general maintenance is not covered under the terms of our warranty and can lead to conflict.
In addition to this there are the health and safety issues of an item being used over a cook top as items could possibly result in items being dropped into a container/pan below containing something such as oil which could then splash and burn the operator or indeed the operator could try and catch this in turn burn themselves on the cook surface below.
The third issue is the influence of the flue gasses for the appliance below on the burner performance of the grill and it is possible that the flue gasses can affect the burner performance and cause a poor burning flame, in occasions such as this following the Gas Industry Unsafe Situations Procedure the Grill would need to be isolated as the poor burning flame could lead to a high CO level and therefore the installation would be classed as At Risk.
I was actually contacted by The National Investigations Manager of Gas Safe at the end of November 2015  for details of our standpoint regarding the installation of grills above ranges and I advised them of the above and in turn they confirmed that this was their standpoint regarding the issue and it is not something just linked to Falcon appliances but all commercial catering equipment manufacturers.
Obviously the install needs to comply with BS6173 and also Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations and any issues linked to this will be raised as per the Gas Industry Unsafe Situations Procedure.

Replies

1. As a business we do not generally design and install salamanders above other appliances especially gas.
   The only time we would consider it is generally with electric over induction if we have a situation where space is right we may partially sit over a gas appliance by no more than a third.
   The primary reason is around the gas reasons cited by falcon not so much the h and s issues which can arguably be overcome with staff training and risk assessment.
2. Gas Safe state that we are to abide by the manufacturers recommendations, which will rule out Falcon & Lincat.
   We would always avoid putting the grill above a range for all the reasons previously mentioned however, In certain circumstances, due to space,  the size of the canopy or, the clients individual preference, there is no alternative to have a grill over the range.
   Blue Seal do not discourage this type of installation therefore, in these circumstances I would use Blue Seal.
3. We have had the need to address this point in the past and are also aware it is a notable and in many respects a divisive issue on various engineering forums.
   It is difficult to argue with the position taken, in this instance by Falcon as the appliance manufacture and most certainly the locating of salamanders above ranges cannot be considered as the ideal scenario.
   And I agree entirely that locating them above such a high heat source can increase the frequency that maintenance will be required including but not limited to the re-greasing of gas taps.
   However, I find the other two stated reasons as slightly more debatable whilst still recognising their validity as the “ideal”.
   Firstly and in respect of the risk of items being dropped from the grill onto the range below and potentially onto pans of oil and water.
   This is undoubtedly a valid concern but I conclude that the manufacturer then to a large degree contradicts itself by manufacturing what it describes as “splashback and plate shelves” designed to locate above their oven ranges and thereby encouraging users to locate and store items in these positions, even if these are only plates and containers …. In other words a design which does still expose the operator to a similar risk even if to a lesser degree.
   I would argue similarly in respect of shelves or pot shelves being placed above ranges. Whilst we would never design these above fryers we are comfortable in placing them over hobs and indeed these are a staple of chef’s requirements and many kitchen installations.
   It should also be recognised that operators themselves have a duty of care in respect of the staff operating these facilities who they should suitably train to manage all such inherent risks.
   Secondly and in respect of the potential flue gas issue, we have been mindful of this and been aware to consider the issue both at initial installation and thereafter at after-sales maintenance visits and it is not one we have encountered as a problem.
   What we believe may have assisted us is having used bespoke grill support shelves, which themselves place a barrier skin between the 2 appliances and deflect flue gases from the lower appliance away from the burners of the upper unit. This is not necessarily the case where grill support “brackets” are used as supplied by some manufacturers when purchasing their grills.
   Similarly, the use of a splashback and plate (grill) shelf may insulate the grill to an extent where the splashback panel sits in front of the oven range’s rear mounted flue.
   Finally, it is worth noting and I would add that the continued requirement to mount salamander grills above oven ranges has to a large extent been driven by clients and operators.
   We have clients who utilise 2 salamanders on their cook line and where locating these above passive (fabrication) equipment items would require elongating the line by some 1800mm in kitchens already severely challenged for space! And so long as it remains less than ideal but neither illegal nor stray into the realms of being “at risk”, this isn’t going to happen!
   In such instances we have had an upfront dialogue with the client, explained both the official line taken by the manufacturer/supplier and the inherent potential risks posed to their operation along with the potential alternative solutions, and obtained their agreement to proceed, effectively indemnifying us in the event issue should arise at a later stage. All of the above obviously also predicated on the assumption that nothing we do is contrary to the requirements placed upon us by BS6173, the Gas Safety Regulations or indeed any other applicable regs.Until it becomes “illegal” as opposed to “less than ideal” we propose to continue this practice. As Falcon are themselves quoted as saying …. “it is solely up to the installing engineer and client to make the final decision regarding this”I hope the foregoing thoughts may be of interest.
4. The problem is there is no hard and fast rule, we try and work on the theory that the gill can be positioned so it is not too high for the kitchen staff to use it, but you also have to take into consideration the gap to the filter bank etc.
   We are trying to always fit onto and insulated shelf and then oversize the shelf so it protects the controls etc.
   The flue of gas and the grill burning secondary gases can be again a problem =, but as with a lot of these it would come down to the commissioning engineer and the tests carried our at this point.
   If space is tight then there is obviously no option, but try and stick to some common sense with regards to shelf heights and the insulated shelf etc.