Not a new problem I know but we are struggling to find engineers at the moment despite advertising widely including in Catering Insight and others etc and offering good packages.

Please could ceda ask if any members have had success in advertising for such staff in any particular media or on-line marketplace?


  1. It’s always a problem that’s why we have ran an apprentice scheme for last 10 years breeding our own as such not much help in short term but it was our only way to a solution. 90% of ours are home grown as such and we’re taking on 3 more this year.
  2. Have some sympathy with them. We are trying too! We have taken a couple of guys recently who are from other aspects of our industry, not sure if that is helpful.
  3. Catering Insight offers no value at all for finding engineers in my opinion. We have great success using CV Bay.
  4. t’s absolutely dire.  We can advertise and get not one single reply and we also desperately need two more Catering Engineers.  We can train all other types of job functions but with the syllabus for Gas, we can’t cover it all because we’re specialists and there isn’t a single college providing appropriate courses.I honestly think that’s where we should aim our efforts.  We’ve invested in the East Kilbride Engineering Training Group over the past two years for 2 Apprentices on a 26 week block training with 4 days there and 1 at a local college doing another course.  The standard of intake was really poor, and we had to put them through a Glasgow City Council scheme to get any grant contribution.  The City Council were absolutely hopeless and in the end the East Kilbride people provided names, we interviewed – they were not the standard we wanted but we decided to try because boys can be late developers and put them through the Council application afterwards to get the grant.One boy did one term and deemed it too far to travel to East Kilbride (it was costing us £8000 for the course), and the other has just completed his 2nd year with us but is really not up to standard.  Neither will be Engineers but it was difficult to attract the right calibre for anything at 16/17.  We have taken a late Apprentice at 24 who is turning out extremely well.

    We are in the same boat for Engineers and I think possibly a route to try is to take a partly qualified guy and invest in him.  I did have that conversation at the CEDA Conference last year with someone who said that was all very well but then they went off to work for themselves.  Well, you have to take a chance all through business and some you win and some you lose.  Good luck to the member trying.

  5. Had no success re media. It’s been word of mouth. Head hunting or agency.

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We went to lunch!

We took a last minute stand at lunch! - The contemporary food-to-go show, on 20th & 21st September 2017 at the ExCeL, London.

In doing so, we were able to promote ceda and ceda members to the 6,000 visitors that attended the two day trade show.

The event targets the food-to-go market with key buyers from the following sectors in attendance:

  • Cafe/Coffee Shop/Sandwich Shop,
  • Multiple/Supermarket/Department Store,
  • Contract Catering,
  • Attractions/Retail/Instore/Airline,
  • Delicatessen/Specialist Food Store,
  • Fast Food/Garden Centre and
  • Sports/Gym/Leisure Centre.

The plethora of sectors represented made it a great fit for us to showcase ourselves, what our members do and the benefits of working with a ceda member, to core operators in the food-to-go industry. Our new branding was on display which clearly demonstrated how ceda membership adds value to any foodservice business and the pool of resources and advice available to members.

As we go forward we hope to grow the ceda membership by exhibiting at various trade shows like this around the country. Let us know if you are attending any shows - we can share the news with other members who may also benefit from exhibiting there. Together we can grow. Together we are connected.



Please could you ask ceda members if any of them recommend a company for grease trap servicing?


  1. Aluline (Group) Limited
    59-62 Brindley Road
    Astmoor Industrial Estate
    WA7 1PFTel Number +44 (0)1928 563532
    Fax number +44 (0)1928 580224
  2. I know that EPAS do provide servicing for machines they fit so may be able to help. If not I’m sure they’ll be able to point you in the right direction; Gareth O’Neill is very helpful.Environmental Products and Services Ltd.
    UK Office
    Unit 6
    Phoenix Court
    Whitehill Industrial Estate
    Hammond Avenue
    South Reddish
    SK4 1PQTel: 0161 477 5555

    Tel: 0161 477 4608

    Freephone No: 0800 0778842


  3. Watling Hope – 01789 740757
  4. Roz Dean, RG Facilities – Tel: 07545 429754
  5. Mechline Developments Ltd –

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ceda Welcomes Two New Members

ceda Welcomes Two New Members

ceda is happy to welcome two new members this month; Fulcrum Commercial Kitchens Ltd and CaterCover Service.

We continue to see growth in membership and we now have over 100 members representing a combined turnover of more than £500 million.

We’re thrilled to see both companies come aboard. They are each experts in their field and will add strength and value to the ceda brand and membership as we continue to grow. Their skills and knowledge will benefit other ceda members and end users across the foodservice industry.

Fulcrum Commercial Kitchens Ltd are a catering equipment distributor offering a full planning, supply and installation service. They also have a 1200sq.ft warehouse which is fully stocked with ancillary equipment such as gastronorms, taps, oversprays, hand basins, gas hoses, softeners and flykillers for those urgent occasions.

On his decision to join ceda Fulcrum Commercial Kitchens Ltd Director, David Burnett said, “I have known of ceda for many, many years but only recently been aware of the huge, positive changes that Adam has generated within the organisation. The current ceda is an altogether more relevant body, re-asserting its industry credibility and therefore an essential association for Fulcrum to have. I would probably have joined for the E-Learning platform alone, which is a superb tool to assist us with ongoing staff training. As the library of industry-specific modules increases it will provide an even better education resource. The future with ceda by our side is an exciting one.”

CaterCover Service Ltd was formed to provide preventive maintenance, emergency breakdown service and installation for all types of commercial catering and refrigeration equipment. They provide all types of service contracts to suit customers requirements as well as emergency breakdown repairs.

“Applying to join ceda was a sensible decision,” says Paul Pogson, Managing Director at CaterCover Service Ltd. “Along with the other benefits of the ceda community, it will allow us to access the vast information and training facilities that are readily available to all the members of ceda, and this will enable us to develop and expand the services that we supply to our client portfolio. We look forward to a long and close working relationship with ceda in the future.”

ceda Members See Continued Positive Sales in 2nd Quarter

ceda’s most recent Confidence Survey shows continuing strong sales for its members when compared to the same period of last year. 64% of members reported better sales for the period and only 15% saw a reduction. Year to date figures are also positive with 57.4% reporting higher sales for the first half of the year.

How did your sales for the last quarter compare with the same quarter in previous year?

These encouraging figures show that despite the current uncertainties in the political and economic arenas as the UK negotiates its exit from Europe, members are still securing new business for both project design and installation work as well as maintenance and service support contracts.

How do your year-to-date sales for this current year compare with your year-to-date last year?

Commenting on the survey, ceda’s Director General Adam Mason said, “In addition to the positive sales achieved by the majority of members, pleasing too was the number reporting an increase in margin. Enquiries received from the Public Sector remained fairly constant with the real Private Sector growth coming from Hotels and Restaurants. We remain in uncertain times but the positive culture that now permeates through ceda and the membership is very much reflected in these results

With several new members joining in recent weeks, ceda represents over 100 companies with a combined turnover of more than £500 million. High levels of interest in the Industry Catering Equipment Technical Conference taking place in October, further indicates that members are experiencing positive levels of activity in the marketplace.

ceda and CESA to Joint Host the Catering Equipment Industry Technical Conference on 11th October 2017

This year’s ceda and CESA organised technical conference will see a range of expert speakers deliver updates and seminars on the latest industry specific topics. Taking place on 11th October at the Nottingham Belfry Hotel, the conference is a must for anyone involved in project sales and management, design and after sales service including senior engineers.

This year’s conference includes two industry firsts – the first presentation on the updated DW172 ventilation regulations and the first introduction to the safe installation, operation and maintenance of solid fuel fired foodservice equipment in commercial premises.

For designers and project staff the business day will feature sessions on:

  • The new DW172 ventilation specification and European ventilation standard to be launched by BESA in November 2017
  • New Industry Guidance on the safe installation, operation and maintenance of solid fuel fired equipment compiled by ceda together with HETAS
  • A seminar on water problems and their treatment
  • Surgeries on refrigeration and warewashing problems

For after sales service staff, the conference will feature

  • Apprenticeships
  • Engineer training initiatives
  • Warranties – your questions answered
  • A seminar on engineer recruitment and retention
  • An update on forthcoming regulations and legislation
  • Surgeries on the Gas Regulations, refrigeration and warewashing problems

The frequent refreshment breaks throughout the conference provide an ideal opportunity to network with industry peers and browse the exhibition which will feature amongst others:

  • Catering Spares Solutions - new video technology for engineers
  • S&S Northern – new ventilation controls
  • First Choice Group
  • Mechline Developments
  • Commercial Catering Spares
  • Protean

Previous visitors to the conference have found the event extremely useful; here are few of their comments:

“Listening to the speakers, who are often the people setting our standards, I always leave the conference with far more knowledge regarding our industry than when I arrived”

Steve Skivington – Sco Mac Catering Equipment

“It’s an excellent opportunity to learn from industry specialists.  Sitting in a room full of your peers and discovering common issues that are raised in Q&A sessions are really useful to take back and share with colleagues within your own business.”

Gary Mackness – ABDA Design

Tickets can be booked and further information is available at:



Could you ask the members if they’ve ever been asked (or indeed if they HAVE) £10m Professional Indemnity insurance?

We currently have £1m and that has been sufficient until this latest request apparently initiated by the leaseholder of the building to increase it to £10m and also the guarantee to hold for 12 years.

Whilst I’m getting a quote from our insurance agents (who think it will be in the £10k plus cost) – has anyone else been asked or do they have thoughts on this?


  1. As businesses grow and their exposure into the market also does in particular working in Leased Properties and Main Contractor Sites then the insurance requirements also rise I’m afraid.
    It is typical for a business with spread of this work to be requested hold the following as a minimum requirement

    • 10m Products
    • 10m Public
    • 5m Design

    In some cases you may also be asked to secure a Performance Bond which can be facilitated by the Bank.
    Hope this helps.

  2. We have 1 million however were also asked for 12 Years so we charged the client the whole amount for it which was £20 k over the 12 Years.
  3. We have £10m P.I. insurance which is broken down as follows;Professional Indemnity
    Limit of Indemnity: £5,000,000 any one occurrence.
    Professional Indemnity Excess of Loss.
    Limit of Indemnity: £5,000,000 any one occurrence.TOTAL PROFESSIONAL INDEMNITY LIMIT OF INDEMNITY – £10,000,000

    It’s not uncommon in our capacity as principal designer to be asked for £10m cover. But the member is right…it isn’t cheap.
    Hope this helps.

  4. We’ve been asked for this amount once in the 20 years I’ve worked in this industry. This was on tender work. We argued back that we weren’t covering the whole of the Councils properties & our work would not exceed more than £1 million. They did not have an answer as to why they were asking for £10 million (!) I would be asking why they warrant such a figure & to justify this, as to increase to £10 million is an absolute fortune.
    Hope it helps.
  5. We’ve been asked and it made no sense at all. I pushed back on this exact point with a large national customer and a tender situation. Essentially they didn’t care until I said we’ll pass across the undisclosed costs to them, then they listened and did the sensible thing.
  6. We work with a maximum cover of £5m professional indemnity insurance, this has always been acceptable to our clients.
    You do get the odd Collateral warranty document that will request 10milion cover that we always question when you consider the typical size of a catering contract.
    We have never had a client / builder refuse to proceed when we have questioned this.
    Hope this helps.
  7. We regularly get asked for £10m even up to £50m, we have £5m and we take a stance that is what we have and that’s that. To date it has always been accepted.
    £1m is a bit low £2m would be the norm, if the distributor would like a competitive quote try:
    Darren Cronin   ACII, Chartered Insurance Broker
    Client Director
    Jelf Clarke Roxburgh
    Tel: 01527 311146   Mob: 07971 065317
  8. 12 years is normal – We have been asked for 5 and 10 million and have always challenged it and 99% of the time it’s been fine that said we have now put 5 in place for a couple of contracts.
  9. We have £1m professional indemnity and that has always been fine, we design kitchens for Local Authorities. Maybe the members client is getting confused with Public / Employers Liability Insurance, we have that at £10m.
  10. We also have £1m cover and regularly get asked (or required) to have a much higher level. Each time we bat it back along the same lines that £1m should be more than sufficient for our works.
    When we are working on large tenders, they are normally consultant led therefore  we would not require PI.
    When we have enquired about pricing, very similar and you are required to keep it in place for 6,10 or sometimes 12 years.
  11. Yes. We have been asked for exactly same, over 12yrs. You can get it from ceda insurance recommended company for 1500.00 a yr. Contact Chris Wheatley at Jelf group. Tel: 01527 311147
  12. Might be worth double checking the type of insurance as we have had requests for £10m insurance. We took a further £8,000,000 insurance on public and products liability to meet the requirements.
  13. We have just been asked a similar question. We have been asked for 2m cover, talking to our insurance we should only req 500k or 1m at the most due to our turnover and risk. As not one project warrants a policy for miss information  etc over 1m. It’s a strange question and we are also still looking into it.
  14. Try Darren Cronin at Jelf Clarke Roxburgh. They are aceda Associate
  15. This is becoming more frequent but appears to be a standard catch all requirement generally requested by the landlords legal adviser. These amounts are excessive and we always argue the point that the nature and value of the works does not warrant that level.
    We do similar to the member below and quote on a one off basis and give the client the option of either pay the extra amount or accept the current level of cover.
  16. Professional Indemnity Insurance.
    It seems that the Banks are asking for this as part of the loan agreement. We have had one that has asked for ten years cover, presumably  this was the period of the loan.
    It maybe that we all need some help on this one.
    At the moment we are refusing on the basis that we are not Consultants and do not charge for drawings. Furthermore we are not qualified to give this guarantee.
    My attitude is that we do not design the water, electric, gas, or air systems we just put items of furniture on the end of them.  We do assist the Customer in putting the items in the right place. But that is as far as it goes.
    I would be interested in the views of someone more knowledgeable than me.
  17. We were asked for £2m for 12 years on a secondary school kitchen project and managed to argue it down to £1 for 6 years. Key thing here is that PI insurance only covers financial loss arising from design issue. It is extremely unlikely that the financial loss incurred will ever be over £1m. Also they will be tied into paying the increased cost for the next 12 years if they accept!!!
    Darren Cronin at Jelf is the expert on this stuff – I would advise them to speak with him.Please refer to:
  18. We have this a lot and normally a reduced PI is accepted by negotiation (ours is £2m). They will have to hold it for 12yrs if they provide a collateral warranty, which the landlord will require. It could be £1k per million PI easily, so £10k for 10m.
  19. We have and require £10 Million for local government and MOD projects. We use UK Special Risks. Ask for Matthew and quote us as the lead I’m sure they will be very helpful – Tel: 01634 862525

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Please could you ask ceda members if they know where we might purchase something like the below image of a counter top rapid wine cooler in the UK please?


  1. Valera used to do them so Pratap Gadhvi could probably help somehow. Or try Autonumis….
  2. I believe FEM used to do one, not sure if they still do

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We have had architects on the small kitchens we’re designing (both of which have condense/self-vent hoods rather than ventilation) asking what heat the equipment that’s being put in, will generate. As we have not been asked this before we wondered if the members could advise?


  1. I would think that the suppliers/manufacturers like Hobart, Winterhalter, Meiko, etc., could/would provide this information.
  2. This issue is one of general ventilation as the self-condensing hoods recirculate the air removing smells and vapour that is then put to the main drain of the oven. Some of the heat will then go down the drain but not all of it. In this case we would normally specify the Ultravent Plus from Rational.Rational Spec: Our UltraVent® condensation technology is also available in an UltraVent® Plus model, which is equipped with special filters to prevent steam as well as bothersome smoke that could otherwise develop when grilling or roasting. This makes it possible to install RATIONAL units in more demanding locations as well, such as front cooking areas.As a failsafe we always ask for some general extraction and make up air to deal with the heat issue.
  3. When I am asked for this I advise the heat rejection for all refrigerated appliances (which can normally be easily gained from the manufacturers cut sheet’s) and the electrical or gas connected load for all cooking appliances, its then for the M and E consultant to calculate the heat rejection allowance.They should do/normally do this based on the CIBSE guide section 6.7 which takes the heat gain calculation from ASHREA Table 6.17 Typical rates of heat gain from restaurant and cooking equipment (6)(Copyright 2005, ©American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and AirConditioning Engineers, Inc. ( see section 6 of the below Guide:CIBSE-Guide-A-Environmental-Design.pdf 

    This may have been updated since this publication.

  4. This information should be taken from the KW load which their M&E consultant should be able to calculate. Fridge manufacturer should be able to. Advise on the heat dump. Please note even if self venting with no dedicated cooking extract the rooms will need fresh air changes to comply with regs.

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ceda Appoint Creation ADM As New PR & Marketing Agency

ceda Appoint Creation ADM As New PR & Marketing Agency (Mon 4th Sep 2017)

ceda have appointed Manchester based full service agency Creation ADM as their new PR and marketing partner to help them drive growth and increase awareness of ceda in the foodservice and hospitality industry.

Following a competitive bid process, Creation ADM were selected to manage all aspects of ceda’s marketing activities including design, PR, email marketing, web design and social media on a three year contract. The two organisations have already worked successfully together in the development of ceda’s new branding which was launched in June this year.

Creation ADM’s brief covers multiple areas including:

  • Increasing industry awareness of ceda as the trade body connecting the diverse areas of design, projects and equipment.
  • Achieving a level of recognition in the Industry such that the supply chain aims to use ceda member companies.
  • Promoting ceda members and the work that they undertake.
  • Increasing ceda’s overall membership.

Commenting on the award, ceda Director General Adam Mason said, “Creation ADM did an excellent job on our rebrand and it was very well received by both members and the industry. Their broad portfolio of clients and the quality of the ideas they presented for our growth strategy meant that they received a unanimous vote from our selection panel.”

Gary Young, Creative Director at Creation ADM said, “working on the rebranding and repositioning of ceda was hugely rewarding and we are delighted to have been appointed to continue this process. There are exciting times ahead.”

The new contract began on the 1st September and everyone at ceda welcomes Creation ADM to the family.

To find out more about our new marketing partners you can visit their website at