Question

Question

Please could you recommend a good independent CAD designer?

Replies

  1. James Brettle. Tel: 0121 585 9477 Mobile: 07886 788 105 Email: info@jbrettle.com
  2. Digital Design Projects  www.digitaldesignprojects.co.uk
  3. Oliver Hambley, Lead Designer at ceda Member company ‘CaterKwik’ said they can help. Direct Line – 01229 484942
  4. I can recommend James Brettle.  He is very experienced.  Tel 07886 788105. Email info@jbrettle.com
  5. Sanjai Rohatgi Tel: 07854 922012
  6. Sam Grayson at Digital Design Projects. Tel: 07545 927952 www.digitaldesignprojects.co.uk 
  7. Russ Chadwick of CO5 Design
  8. Dave York is a Freelance Cad Designer he works in 2d and 3d as well as a multitude of other Cad services.  we haven’t used Dave yet, but will do in the future. As we really like the look of his visuals. Price wise he has quoted me £20 per hour. His web site is https://www.dycadservices.com/ and email address is daveyork@outlook.com
  9. Langley Foxall. Based up near Manchester. A lad called Sam Calvert he used to work for Lockharts. Very good drawings and superb on the visuals etc. He is on LinkedIn

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Question

Question

We have recently been challenged by Lincat & Falcon regards the subject of designing and installing gas salamanders above gas oven ranges.
We feel this is a vary grey area and can leave companies exposed to additional unrecoverable business costs which we want to avoid.
We would like to know what other  members experiences have been regards this issue.
Below is the communication we received from Falcon:-
We do not recommend Grill being placed over ranges and have not done now for a number of years, however it is solely up to the installing engineer and client to make the final decision regarding this, and any responsibility for such will be down to them.
The main reasons behind this are:
T
he sitting of grill above heat sources can cause components to see a higher temperature than would normally be expected and this in turn can lead to maintenance issues such as gas taps needing re-greased on a frequent basis and such general maintenance is not covered under the terms of our warranty and can lead to conflict.
In addition to this there are the health and safety issues of an item being used over a cook top as items could possibly result in items being dropped into a container/pan below containing something such as oil which could then splash and burn the operator or indeed the operator could try and catch this in turn burn themselves on the cook surface below.
The third issue is the influence of the flue gasses for the appliance below on the burner performance of the grill and it is possible that the flue gasses can affect the burner performance and cause a poor burning flame, in occasions such as this following the Gas Industry Unsafe Situations Procedure the Grill would need to be isolated as the poor burning flame could lead to a high CO level and therefore the installation would be classed as At Risk.
I was actually contacted by The National Investigations Manager of Gas Safe at the end of November 2015  for details of our standpoint regarding the installation of grills above ranges and I advised them of the above and in turn they confirmed that this was their standpoint regarding the issue and it is not something just linked to Falcon appliances but all commercial catering equipment manufacturers.
Obviously the install needs to comply with BS6173 and also Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations and any issues linked to this will be raised as per the Gas Industry Unsafe Situations Procedure.

 

 

Replies

  1. As a business we do not generally design and install salamanders above other appliances especially gas.
    The only time we would consider it is generally with electric over induction if we have a situation where space is right we may partially sit over a gas appliance by no more than a third.
    The primary reason is around the gas reasons cited by falcon not so much the h and s issues which can arguably be overcome with staff training and risk assessment.
  2. Gas Safe state that we are to abide by the manufacturers recommendations, which will rule out Falcon & Lincat.
    We would always avoid putting the grill above a range for all the reasons previously mentioned however, In certain circumstances, due to space,  the size of the canopy or, the clients individual preference, there is no alternative to have a grill over the range.
    Blue Seal do not discourage this type of installation therefore, in these circumstances I would use Blue Seal.
  3. We have had the need to address this point in the past and are also aware it is a notable and in many respects a divisive issue on various engineering forums.
    It is difficult to argue with the position taken, in this instance by Falcon as the appliance manufacture and most certainly the locating of salamanders above ranges cannot be considered as the ideal scenario.
    And I agree entirely that locating them above such a high heat source can increase the frequency that maintenance will be required including but not limited to the re-greasing of gas taps.
    However, I find the other two stated reasons as slightly more debatable whilst still recognising their validity as the “ideal”.
    Firstly and in respect of the risk of items being dropped from the grill onto the range below and potentially onto pans of oil and water.
    This is undoubtedly a valid concern but I conclude that the manufacturer then to a large degree contradicts itself by manufacturing what it describes as “splashback and plate shelves” designed to locate above their oven ranges and thereby encouraging users to locate and store items in these positions, even if these are only plates and containers …. In other words a design which does still expose the operator to a similar risk even if to a lesser degree.
    I would argue similarly in respect of shelves or pot shelves being placed above ranges. Whilst we would never design these above fryers we are comfortable in placing them over hobs and indeed these are a staple of chef’s requirements and many kitchen installations.
    It should also be recognised that operators themselves have a duty of care in respect of the staff operating these facilities who they should suitably train to manage all such inherent risks.
    Secondly and in respect of the potential flue gas issue, we have been mindful of this and been aware to consider the issue both at initial installation and thereafter at after-sales maintenance visits and it is not one we have encountered as a problem.
    What we believe may have assisted us is having used bespoke grill support shelves, which themselves place a barrier skin between the 2 appliances and deflect flue gases from the lower appliance away from the burners of the upper unit. This is not necessarily the case where grill support “brackets” are used as supplied by some manufacturers when purchasing their grills.
    Similarly, the use of a splashback and plate (grill) shelf may insulate the grill to an extent where the splashback panel sits in front of the oven range’s rear mounted flue.
    Finally, it is worth noting and I would add that the continued requirement to mount salamander grills above oven ranges has to a large extent been driven by clients and operators.
    We have clients who utilise 2 salamanders on their cook line and where locating these above passive (fabrication) equipment items would require elongating the line by some 1800mm in kitchens already severely challenged for space! And so long as it remains less than ideal but neither illegal nor stray into the realms of being “at risk”, this isn’t going to happen!
    In such instances we have had an upfront dialogue with the client, explained both the official line taken by the manufacturer/supplier and the inherent potential risks posed to their operation along with the potential alternative solutions, and obtained their agreement to proceed, effectively indemnifying us in the event issue should arise at a later stage. All of the above obviously also predicated on the assumption that nothing we do is contrary to the requirements placed upon us by BS6173, the Gas Safety Regulations or indeed any other applicable regs.Until it becomes “illegal” as opposed to “less than ideal” we propose to continue this practice. As Falcon are themselves quoted as saying …. “it is solely up to the installing engineer and client to make the final decision regarding this”I hope the foregoing thoughts may be of interest.
  4. The problem is there is no hard and fast rule, we try and work on the theory that the gill can be positioned so it is not too high for the kitchen staff to use it, but you also have to take into consideration the gap to the filter bank etc.
    We are trying to always fit onto and insulated shelf and then oversize the shelf so it protects the controls etc.
    The flue of gas and the grill burning secondary gases can be again a problem =, but as with a lot of these it would come down to the commissioning engineer and the tests carried our at this point.
    If space is tight then there is obviously no option, but try and stick to some common sense with regards to shelf heights and the insulated shelf etc.  

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Question

Question

We are looking to purchase some heat proof labels or badges to put on the cooking appliances that we sell, can any of our associate members recommend a supplier?

 

Replies

  1. Mileta signs in Blackpool. Tel: 01253 766859
  2. Jason Smith, Colour Data UK Ltd, Unit 7 Hyders Fm, Bonnetts Lane, Ifield, Crawley, RH11 0NY. Tel: 01293 738197 and 01293 551520. Fax: 01293 738183. Email: jason@datalabel.co.uk Website: www.tollgatelabels.co.uk Web: www.data-label.co.uk
  3. Diametric Technical Ltd, Lake House, Waltham Business Park, Brickyard Rd, Swanmore, Hampshire, SO32 2SA. T: 01489 899555 D: 01489 899546 Fax: 01489 899556 Website: www.diametric.co.uk
  4. If the member is also a Cedabond member there are special rates agreed as below:
    Good Afternoon,
    Cedabond sent some information a while ago on our behalf promoting our ability to supply you with a wide range of labels/ tickets at extremely competitive rates.
    This year labels will account for nearly £3M of our projected £20M turnover and it is the fastest growing product set across the portfolio of products we supply.
    We have fantastic knowledge on all things “sticky” so can help you with any problems you might have encountered with any labels or stickers that you purchase for your products.
    You can also save over 25% on many items – all we need is some basic information and then can give you a quote.
    I have attached our leaflet which I hope you find informative and we have also launched our new and improved labels website which I would love you to take a look at – www.premvanlabels.com
    With over 35 years trading we can be trusted to give you superb service.
    If you would like to know more or get a no strings attached quotation then please do not hesitate to contact me.
    Kind Regards,
    Bethany Cutler
    Label Specialist
    www.premvanlabels.com
  5. Mileta signs based in Lancashire manufacture these. Telephone Number 01253 765859
  6. The labels we use are of good quality and long lasting. It obviously depends on exactly where you place them on the appliance, but we have had success with them.
    Martin Studholme on Tel: 01253 765859 Email: sales@miletasigns.co.uk
  7. Mileta Signs & Products Ltd Tel:1253 765859 Contact: Martin Studholme
  8. Melita signs sell custom branded badges for use on equipment Tel:01253 765859.
  9. Simon Wood Tel: +44 (0)1384 243155 Fax: +44 (0)1384 242428 Email: simon.wood@industriallabelsandnameplates.co.uk Website: www.industriallabelsandnameplates.co.uk Industrial Labels & Nameplates Limited, PO Box 7090, Unit 2 Bagley Industrial Park, Northfield Road, Dudley, DY1 9JU
  10. We buy our metallic plate badges (anodized aluminium) to put on kitchen equipment from DANTECH LTD – http://www.idmark.com/
    Marken House, Fallow Corner Drov, Manea, Cambs, PE15 0LT, England
    Tel: 01354 688 488 Fax: 01354 688 444 Email: sales@dantech.co.uk
    The person who I have dealt with on previous orders was Ken Christensen – kendantech@btconnect.com
  11. Milleta signs
  12. Seareach-Silver PET
  13. Marine Grade Labels we use them also our local supplier is Armstrong Printers in Luton. Contact Kevin Tel: 01582 721371
  14. Seton Tel: 0800 585501

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Question

Question

We supply among other equipment refrigeration units for purchase/rental. We have been asked to collect an old unrepairable unit from a site who are purchasing new from us. We have not previously offered this service. We are looking for information on the correct disposal of these units and a depo near Staffordshire we can take the units too?

 

Replies

  1. This may be a starting point – https://www.businesswaste.co.uk/waste-management-staffordshire/
  2. Our local council offer this service, you have to take it too them, but you dispose how you would a domestic. BUT there is a charge of around £95.00 depending on the size of the unit.
  3. Most companies who sell refrigeration offer a collection and WEEE compliant disposal service too. Seeing that a new unit is being delivered does the supplier involved in selling the unit not offer this? Getting rid of refrigeration with a generic waste management company tends to be very expensive – we’ve asked ‘Grundon’ in the past for example and they have quoted around £250 for a single cabinet! However, suppliers like Foster are much cheaper if they are selling kit too – they will remove a like-for-like piece of refrigeration for around £60.
  4. Not sure about Staffordshire but Pentland Wholesale in Lancashire offer a disposal service – from around £40 per cabinet from memory if delivered to them.
  5. Ask the manufacturer to pick up on delivery of new unit.
  6. Firstly, the refrigerant will need to be reclaimed and a waste transfer notice completed and then we call the local recycling business in our case its wards recycling and they quote a cost to dispose of them, alternatively they can keep it at their premises until they have a few and hire a skip and dispose of them that way but you must tell the skip hire place that it’s refrigeration items as this is an additional charge. What we try to do to avoid this is ask the manufacturer of the new appliance to collect the old one and dispose of it which they will do for an additional cost normally around £60/£100 and it saves the time of reclaiming the gas and collecting it etc etc.
  7. Cef (city electrical factors) can offer the collection service nationwide from dealer premises, they won’t collect from site, but it will cost anything from £150 to £250 dependant on unit size.

 

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Question

Question

Can anyone recommend a suitable outfit for post installation equipment training for complete kitchen projects, similar to the service offered by Radford Chancellor?

Replies

  1. We’ve used Alan Evans in the past for end user training, as he’s an independent chef trainer. Tel: 07526 245430
  2. Richard Goodchild can offer this service (ex. KCCJ). Comprehensive experience with kitchen projects and now heading up Alset & Partners. Email: richard@alsetpartners.com Tel: 0207 205 2296
  3. We arrange it ourselves with the manufacturers, producing a training schedule (that the staff sign to say they’ve been trained and which can be kept on their files) and we then co-ordinate on the day and then cover the basics ourselves such as cleaning of stainless steel, the fridges and items such as the slicer/mixer – so very basic.

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Question

Question

Please can we ask the Helpdesk if any members can recommend or suggest a Freelance Project Manager?

Replies

    1. Paul Downes of Surefire Contract Management. Been in the industry for years and a very knowledgeable resource.
    2. Trevor Jones – Green Design & Project Management. Tel: 07900 181475
    3. Contact Charlie Parker. Email: charlesparkercbp@outlook.com
    4. Doug Perea dougperea@dapces.com
    5. Ian Whiston, based up here Oldham way but does cover the country. Tel: 07864 702484
    6. Sanjai Rohatgi (Project Manager). Tel 07854 922012. Email: Sajai.rohatgi@jivefax.co.uk

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Question

Question

I am looking for a company in and around the London area that can offer help with a strip out and removal of an existing kitchen along with storage of equipment to be retained and then some consolidation and delivery back to site.

Replies

    1. Danny Kett at Clean Air Systems. Tel: 01376 335356
    2. Court Catering Equipment Limited. Tel: 0208 576 6520. Website: www.courtcatering.co.uk
    3. FSW Gas Services. Tel: 0161 943 0268. Website: www.fswgasservices.co.uk
    4. Chiller Box Ltd. Tel: 0800 849 1188. Website: www.chillerbox.com
    5. Archer Catering Systems Ltd. Tel: 0161 737 8307
    6. Cleanstart, 25b Barking Industrial Park, Ripple Road, Barkin, Essex, IG11 0TJ Contact: Ron McEwen cleanstart12@btconnect.com Mobile: 07775537038 Tel: 02085945088. Ron will also clean and service the equipment.
    7. General Catering Equipment Tel: 01302 340742 Website: www.generalcatering.co.uk
    8. C&C Catering Equipment Limited Website: https://cateringequipment.com/ Tel: 01244 625170
    9. Wilcox Burchmore. Website: www.wilcoxburchmore.co.uk Tel: 01895 630726
    10. AGGORA Projects Ltd. Website: www.aggora.com Tel: 0845 1177 555 ext: 132
    11. Mark Hazell | Senior Accounts Manager | Gratte Brothers Catering Equipment Ltd. Email mhazell@gratte.com Phone 01438 750022 | Mobile 07753915521

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Question

Question

Can any members recommend a good supplier for bean to cup coffee machines serving up to about 100 cups a day who are happy to deal with catering equipment companies (rather than those specifically in the coffee sector) aside from Brew Group?

Replies

  1. Bravilor Adam https://www.bravilor.com/en-GB/product/freshground-xl-510/323
  2. General Catering Ltd can help specifically with returned machines. They have large quantity of thermoplan bean to cup and all machines are in working order with full service history www.generalcatering.co.uk
  3. Justin Stockwell @ Caffiene
  4. Morvend. Contact: Andy Gurney andy@morvend.co.uk Tel: 0800 9775992. Mobile: 07825 113944. They are very helpful and professional, based in Herts.
  5. Best person to talk to is Justin Stockwell, Managing Director – Justin@caffeinelimited.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1707-278400
  6. The only company we have dealt with is WMF. They happily deal with distributors but are very ‘picky’ about installation which they insist on doing themselves and has to be 100% correct. And that means 100% They also like to develop a direct relationship with the client as well, which doesn’t always sit well. Other than that, good machines with good results.
  7. Fracino http://www.fracino.com/downloads/brochures/cybercino.pdf
  8. WMF

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Question

Question

Are you aware of whether many catering companies pay for ‘travel time’ from home to the first job / from last job? We have historically paid 1 ½ which doesn’t seem realistic or sustainable so any thoughts / feedback from other catering companies would be appreciated.

Replies

  1. We do at Time and a half as long as they have completed 8 hours normal time.
  2. We charge from our Works back to our Works even if the Engineer goes straight from home and unless a customer is on a Contract Rate. It is charged on the hourly labour rate with no additional mileage.
  3. Our company has always paid for travel time.
  4. Yes we come across this with some of the sub contractors we use.
  5. We pay from home to home although I don’t agree.
  6. No we don’t we charge one call out to site and that is it no matter where the engineer is, like wise RTF (return to fit) we charge a half call out RTf no matter where we come from and then standard labour when we hit site. There are some customers who pay a fuel surcharge over a certain distance but they are the multi site customers and we go from a contract set point so for example there is a set point in Newport and one in west wales and if we go over 50 miles from that point we can charge the distance less 50 miles , for example 78 miles would become a 28 mile diesel charge @ 50ppp
  7. My guys are salaried so this forms part of their working day.
  8. This has been a bone of contention for some time, and based on our research it is generally an industry norm.
    We pay from home to first job and last job to home minus 30 minutes from each way. This 30 minutes is an average amount of time that it would take to get to their place of work and back home (Head office) if they were generally local.
  9. Our engineers have travelling included in costs due to time/distance element on our projects.
  10. This is always a bone of contention. I personally find it greedy to a degree and the analogy I use is that the office staff have to get to work on time and the average travel time is 30mins and I don’t pay them so why would I pay the engineer. My rule of thumb is if they start at 07.30 and set off at 06.30 I pay the 1 hour at the overtime rate. I do understand that with me saying I wont pay the first half hour they will always set off the hour before so they do get paid. It is a very difficult one to know what to do for the best. Unfortunately because good engineers are hard to come by they do have us by the short and curly’s unfortunately.
  11. My local engineers get paid from the office in the morning until they arrive home at night while the outside guys, who work from home, are paid from door to door.
  12. We had this issue with an engineer, we paid both it is tricky I would recommend you negotiate all travel time no matter what the time is flat rate.
  13. From experience, engineers pay is always door to door.
  14. We don’t pay for the first 20 mins travel at the start and end of the day. If I remember correctly this was on the advice of our accountant or our engineers use of the vehicle to travel to work would be classed as a perk and therefore declarable to HMRC.
  15. We pay engineers from company premises – if they go straight to a job near home then they have the advantage of a later start – if they go straight to a job further afield then we have the advantage of saving the travel time. We pay for 40 hours per week and retain a degree of flexibility.
  16. Most companies I have dealt with will pay travel time, in particular the last call at the end of the day, as the geographical area covered can take the engineers out with the region their main office is located.

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Question

Question

We are designing the catering in a new build and the main client has told us that it’s our responsibility to design/draw the pipework route from the coldrooms to the roof located compressors. We’ve never done this before as its always been part of the M&E package. Could members advise either on their experience or a suitable reply?

Replies

  1. The simplest way to achieve this is to get the cold room manufacturer on site to execute a full and detailed survey, they will then produce manufacturers drawings showing the route. There may be a cost for this exercise.
  2. I would recommend they get the appropriate advice from their coldroom suppliers as usually there are oil traps required on a vertical run. They would have to agree a route with the builder or building management as this would depend on access physical provision of the route, so a site survey by the refrigeration supplier would need to happen. Also, usually containment is down to the builder so might be worth checking if that will be excluded also.
  3. As a top quality ceda member surely the company who supplies the refrigeration install service would do this as a level of their competence.
  4. Our experience of this was to ask our sub-contract cold-room installer who makes the cold-rooms up and was happy to provide us with the layout drawing as they were running the pipework. It does mean faffing around revisiting site if the walls are up and then planning the route, which can take some time. You must ensure that they the client provide a drawing showing all other plant or equipment as we found that the position of our pipe run was through a boiler that was not on their drawings. We also charged for this service . Hope this helps .
  5. This needs to be coordinated by the M&E contractor/consultant but it is not unreasonable for them to ask the fridge contractor for this to be provided as a drawing. Suggest they throw back to the client and ask for confirmation of pipework route required for the coordination of the installation with other services and future maintenance. Ask for a full set of cad drawings for the route so once a route is agreed, get the fridge company to plot it on the drawing.
  6. As a general rule of thumb this is the norm on most of the projects we undertake. The design and drawing would always be with the Cold Store provider.

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